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Old March 1, 2020, 21:08   #21
DavidMedley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
[*]Permanent aggravation;
I'm not sure what the thematic justification is for this, but I don't agree with those who say it's unworkable. Or rather, I don't agree that a form of permanent aggravation that is quite a bit different from the existing item flag is unworkable. For example you could reduce the range all the way down to 5 squares. Or you could combine it with fear generation (tho that would take a lot of difficult balancing) so that sometimes they wake up and attack you but sometimes they wake up and run away. The latter would be equivalent to stealth.
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Old March 1, 2020, 21:19   #22
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Hmm, in fact if you only aggroed monsters that were fearable that might be pretty awesome. "Fear Aura" that always wakes fearable monsters within range and sometimes makes them flee.

Last edited by DavidMedley; March 1, 2020 at 21:24.
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Old March 3, 2020, 21:34   #23
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Or maybe a rage aura, like Nick is trying to do with the Taunt spell. Kinda like if your character is always singing Song of Challenge in Sil. I think it could still work only on enemies susceptible to fear.

Last edited by DavidMedley; March 3, 2020 at 21:48.
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Old March 4, 2020, 00:36   #24
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Thank you so much Nick! I've had a blast playing the druid. The only problem I remember is that I never did figure out what Pukelman form was for.

I won't mind when the fox gets nerfed. It was great fun to play the furry death balls, but it will also be fun to play them as something balanced. :P

Last edited by Anarchic Fox; March 4, 2020 at 00:59.
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Old March 5, 2020, 20:48   #25
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I loved Pukelman for the poison immunity (and others). I think of it as "Tank" form.

Fox: Paratrooper Form
Eagle: Scout Form
Pukelman: Tank Form

It wasn't until Bear that I started to feel it didn't have it's own niche so much.
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Old March 6, 2020, 12:54   #26
Anarchic Fox
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Thanks! I got lucky and found poison resistance early, so perhaps that's why I didn't appreciate it.
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Old March 9, 2020, 03:30   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
Quick comment about druid & OP fox form. This is overpowering other forms. Why would I use bear if fox is almost as good in melee, costs 2 SPs, has better fail rates & is faster moving?
Currently bear is typically about 30% better than fox in melee. Main options seem to be
  1. Leave it as is, as 30% is really quite a bit
  2. Change fox from 2 extra blows to 1
  3. Change bear from 1 extra blow to 2
Opinions?

I should mention, too - DavidMedley and I are engaged in a significant revamp of the blackguard (where he does all the work and then I criticise him), so we'll get that out before too long for testing.
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Old March 9, 2020, 03:39   #28
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How obvious is that 30% improvement? It may be that fox looks better than bear using the stats that are obvious to the player. Sorry, I haven't played any druids yet so I don't actually know; this is speculation.
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Old March 9, 2020, 07:05   #29
DavidMedley
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
[*]Change fox from 2 extra blows to 1
Opinions?
Fox was so freaking good that I'd start here. Doesn't seem like it should be a dominant melee form.

Last edited by DavidMedley; March 9, 2020 at 08:11.
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Old March 9, 2020, 10:11   #30
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I've played a few melee-oriented druids. I don't think the Fox is OP (v4.1.3). It does outdo the other druid shapes, but I'd argue that's because the others are too weak or too niche.

The bear usually does a little bit more damage than the fox. However:
- the Con bonus is very minor, as your health doesn't increase when you shapeshift into a bear; if the bear had +10Con, I can imagine running round as a bear so as not to have to shapeshift into the form. This would be useless with maxed out Con, though.
- the Stealth penalty is massive compared to the fox, especially when taking the movement speed into account.
- the bear seems weaker than a classical fighter character, while bearing (no pun intented) the no-item-use penalty.
- Bear Form appears ridiculously late in the game (clvl 40 - some of us like to be done with M by then!). If this is supposed to be the druid's melee form, it ought to appear much earlier, like clvl 20. At the moment, there's no option but to use Fox as the melee form for most of the game. Thematically, let me also note that Angband's Beorn is very much not a level 40 druid.

Short version: Change bear from 1 extra blow to 2 and make available earlier.
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