Sound/Message Use

TricksterWolf · September 7, 2013, 22:31

So, after a lot of headdesk, I think I figured something out.

variable.c defines const char** angband_sound_name, and z-msg.h contains a corresponding enum of const ints. Neither one of these has any description or documentation, but they have to be in perfect sync for the sounds and messages to work properly. Is this correct?

I have no idea how I was supposed to figure this out by myself, and I'm honestly gobsmacked by all the concrete dependencies between separate files with no documentation. I mean, I expect free software source to be bad, but not nearly this bad, particularly given the length of time Angband has been around. Is there something fundamental I'm missing about how to read and interpret the code base?

Derakon · September 7, 2013, 23:18

I think what you're missing is that Angband has been around for 20 years and has only ever been worked on by hobbyists, who tend to lack the kind of dedicated energy needed to perform major overhauls of the codebase. Honestly Angband's code is in fantastic shape, considering that. There's a reason there've been so many more variants of Angband than, say, NetHack.

I do sympathise with you though. The code isn't always easy to understand. My best advice is to hang out in the #angband-dev IRC channel on irc.freenode.net and ask for help there. Or post threads in the development forum here. There's really no need to try to go it alone.

TricksterWolf · September 8, 2013, 01:25

I appreciate the response and am not trying to criticize (you guys are all awesome srsly), though I did need to vent a bit. I just don't know why:

// Names must match enum order in z-msg.h.

...isn't somewhere around line 245 of variable.c. I'm not requesting a rewrite of the entire code base*, just a clue here or there about where the large, game-destroying dependencies lie. Fortunately, it seems there is a strong correlation between "commonly edited" and "documented", at least, so this isn't popping up in every situation.

* I'd love to rewrite it in Java, but honestly, that would be a bigger project than what I'm currently attempting.

Derakon · September 8, 2013, 01:27

We're working on the rewrite. Seriously. That's what Pyrel is -- a rewrite in Python with an eye towards keeping things easy to modify and better-documented. It's a slow process though, especially when developers are short on spare time.

TricksterWolf · September 8, 2013, 02:03

Oh, that's fantastic news!

Python is a natural choice for the text version; but with the graphics and sound, wouldn't it be easier to write a platform-independent version in Java...?

Derakon · September 8, 2013, 02:14

Java has no inherent advantages in terms of making GUIs compared to Python, and they're both about equally cross-platform.

In any event, 15k lines have been written so far, so I doubt we'll be switching languages.

TricksterWolf · September 8, 2013, 04:03

Neat. I'd love to help out sometime after my current project set cools off a bit, if you wouldn't mind.

Derakon · September 8, 2013, 04:33

Contributors are welcome.

The project is on Bitbucket; the wiki should help get you started. Feel free to ask questions here or on IRC.

takkaria · September 8, 2013, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by TricksterWolf

I appreciate the response and am not trying to criticize (you guys are all awesome srsly), though I did need to vent a bit. I just don't know why:

// Names must match enum order in z-msg.h.

...isn't somewhere around line 245 of variable.c. I'm not requesting a rewrite of the entire code base*, just a clue here or there about where the large, game-destroying dependencies lie. Fortunately, it seems there is a strong correlation between "commonly edited" and "documented", at least, so this isn't popping up in every situation.

You make a fair point. It is really unclear how the bits can fit together but we are actively working on fixing that so that the bits fit together in a more obvious way and you don't have two lists of the same things in different places. Takes time though!

DaviddesJ · September 8, 2013, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by TricksterWolf

I appreciate the response and am not trying to criticize (you guys are all awesome srsly), though I did need to vent a bit. I just don't know why:

// Names must match enum order in z-msg.h.

...isn't somewhere around line 245 of variable.c.

Because you didn't submit it? I'm pretty sure that anyone who wants to help document the code is very welcome.

September 7, 2013, 22:31	#1
TricksterWolf Scout Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 43	Sound/Message Use So, after a lot of headdesk, I think I figured something out. variable.c defines const char** angband_sound_name, and z-msg.h contains a corresponding enum of const ints. Neither one of these has any description or documentation, but they have to be in perfect sync for the sounds and messages to work properly. Is this correct? I have no idea how I was supposed to figure this out by myself, and I'm honestly gobsmacked by all the concrete dependencies between separate files with no documentation. I mean, I expect free software source to be bad, but not nearly this bad, particularly given the length of time Angband has been around. Is there something fundamental I'm missing about how to read and interpret the code base?

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
mimic message bug	fizzix	v4	7	March 26, 2012 23:01
Another amusing message	Max Stats	Vanilla	4	March 17, 2011 11:06
Reply to which message	Timo Pietilä	Oook!	1	December 6, 2010 20:39
message display improvements	DaviddesJ	Vanilla	9	April 3, 2008 10:35
Stange message	Diogenes	Vanilla	4	October 25, 2007 15:04

September 7, 2013, 23:18	#2
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,022	I think what you're missing is that Angband has been around for 20 years and has only ever been worked on by hobbyists, who tend to lack the kind of dedicated energy needed to perform major overhauls of the codebase. Honestly Angband's code is in fantastic shape, considering that. There's a reason there've been so many more variants of Angband than, say, NetHack. I do sympathise with you though. The code isn't always easy to understand. My best advice is to hang out in the #angband-dev IRC channel on irc.freenode.net and ask for help there. Or post threads in the development forum here. There's really no need to try to go it alone.

September 8, 2013, 01:25	#3
TricksterWolf Scout Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 43	I appreciate the response and am not trying to criticize (you guys are all awesome srsly), though I did need to vent a bit. I just don't know why: // Names must match enum order in z-msg.h. ...isn't somewhere around line 245 of variable.c. I'm not requesting a rewrite of the entire code base, just a clue here or there about where the large, game-destroying dependencies lie. Fortunately, it seems there is a strong correlation between "commonly edited" and "documented", at least, so this isn't popping up in every situation. I'd love to rewrite it in Java, but honestly, that would be a bigger project than what I'm currently attempting.

September 8, 2013, 01:27	#4
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,022	We're working on the rewrite. Seriously. That's what Pyrel is -- a rewrite in Python with an eye towards keeping things easy to modify and better-documented. It's a slow process though, especially when developers are short on spare time.

September 8, 2013, 02:03	#5
TricksterWolf Scout Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 43	Oh, that's fantastic news! Python is a natural choice for the text version; but with the graphics and sound, wouldn't it be easier to write a platform-independent version in Java...?

September 8, 2013, 02:14	#6
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,022	Java has no inherent advantages in terms of making GUIs compared to Python, and they're both about equally cross-platform. In any event, 15k lines have been written so far, so I doubt we'll be switching languages.

September 8, 2013, 04:03	#7
TricksterWolf Scout Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 43	Neat. I'd love to help out sometime after my current project set cools off a bit, if you wouldn't mind.

September 8, 2013, 04:33	#8
Derakon Prophet Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9,022	Contributors are welcome. The project is on Bitbucket; the wiki should help get you started. Feel free to ask questions here or on IRC.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)