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Old October 12, 2018, 22:50   #11
Derakon
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The Lost Sword quests are worth doing eventually, because they can give you access to out-of-class skills at up to a .5x multiplier (requires getting the same skill reward from three different quests). In particular, Mindcrafting can be a godsend for a lot of characters because it offers nearly unparalleled utility at very cheap SP costs. I can see skipping the quests if your goal is to get power in the short term though, since hunting down all those monsters scattered across the level can take a lot of time. I forget if ToME lets you enable the "always generate small levels" option during the middle of a game; if it does, you can use that to concentrate the monsters and make the hunt less tedious. Assuming of course that you can handle them!

The Orc Cave special level is definitely a good source of power for young characters. Too bad the artifacts are so well-hidden; IIRC they're blocked behind blank granite walls. So bring a means of digging and some Object Detection scrolls.
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Old October 12, 2018, 23:24   #12
Gauss
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Actually i skipped the lost sword quests.
Starting new character soon so i will try them for the skills.

Thank you all for the info
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Old October 12, 2018, 23:26   #13
AnonymousHero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
The Lost Sword quests are worth doing eventually, because they can give you access to out-of-class skills at up to a .5x multiplier (requires getting the same skill reward from three different quests). In particular, Mindcrafting can be a godsend for a lot of characters because it offers nearly unparalleled utility at very cheap SP costs. I can see skipping the quests if your goal is to get power in the short term though, since hunting down all those monsters scattered across the level can take a lot of time. I forget if ToME lets you enable the "always generate small levels" option during the middle of a game; if it does, you can use that to concentrate the monsters and make the hunt less tedious. Assuming of course that you can handle them!
I've added a bit of info to my post, suffice it to say that skipping(!) Lost Sword quests are really the ultimate metagame (cf. Anti-magic). By postponing them it's possible to possess Ingeborg (joke monster, Theme-only) with 3 weapon slots, all the standard slots and 12K(?) HP... and then go full-on Anti-magic. Of course it's a strange combination of extremely dangerous and extremely tedious, so it's not for everybody, but I've done it once or twice. (Once you get the corpse the game is usually over, so the challenge is mostly about the challenge of getting the corpse without using magic above level 1 via devices ). Also, I haven't tried it, but I believe it was actually possible to do Alchemy (before I removed it) even when you were under the influence of Anti-magic -- you just had to get the castable Alchemy spell before Anti-magic 'canceled it out' by making it impossible to progress to 50 points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
The Orc Cave special level is definitely a good source of power for young characters. Too bad the artifacts are so well-hidden; IIRC they're blocked behind blank granite walls. So bring a means of digging and some Object Detection scrolls.
Good advice, but I think a means of digging + ?Mapping should be sufficient, and you'll usually have that before going to Orc21 -- at least if you follow my suggested speed-route

Last edited by AnonymousHero; October 12, 2018 at 23:33.
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Old October 16, 2018, 13:57   #14
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If you are running a sorceror or any kind of character that can kill a dragonfly (preferably from a distance) at level 1 then the first thing to do is to go to the mountains east of town and try to do it. It will provide 15 levels or so instantly. At that point you can take out griffins and maybe even young dragons (blue are the safest). At level 20 mature dragons should be possible. They will get you to about level 30 if you want.

Alchemists can do even better by killing a young dragon to start.

Possessors can wait for Beorn or one of the eagles to kill a dragon and possess that body.

I think the easiest character for a beginner is a Zombie RohanKnight Swordmaster worshipping Melkor (make sure to pray when you start). Maximize Strength and Dexterity and use a dagger so that you have multiple blows.

The easiest character for me to win with is a Lost Soul Death Mold Sorceror worshipping Melkor with Unusual Rooms on. If I survive for five minutes I have a sure winner. It only takes about 24 hours playing time total.

The Orc Cave artifacts are not behind granite walls. There are hidden doors. The down staircase is behind a granite wall, but you can just go out the way you came in.
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Old October 16, 2018, 15:49   #15
Therem Harth
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Unusual Rooms can be all of fun, horrifying, and boring by turns. Part of the problem is which kinds of vaults are actually good in ToME 2, a lot of the more reliable ones for treasure are boringly designed. (And vice versa, the huge scary looking ones often have mediocre treasure.)

Also in old versions you could raid the Sandworm Lair with Unusual Rooms on for pretty easy artifacts, due to limitations on what monsters could spawn in that dungeon. Not sure if AH has fixed that in 2.4.0.

As far as acquiring powerful items, IIRC the main rule for drops is that drop level is the average of dungeon level and monster level. So fighting powerful monsters out of their native depth is not that useful item-wise, whereas killing lots of "weak" monsters deep in the dungeon can get you more loot (just as a matter of statistics).
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Old October 16, 2018, 16:00   #16
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Other thoughts:

- Wands and Magic Device skill are powerful in the early game. Warriors/rogues/etc. can do a lot of damage with good device skill and wands of Manathrust and Noxious Cloud.

- Archery is not powerful until the later game, early on it's mainly about softening powerful monsters before they get in melee range. However, it can be really good for that if done right, especially when combined with wands. Keep an eye out for scrolls of Enchant Weapon to Hit/Dam, scrolls of Blessing/Holy Chant/etc., potions of Heroism, spellbooks of Divine Aim or Manwe's Blessing depending on who you worship - basically anything that improves damage and accuracy.

- While Berserker/Running tactics are necessary for a lot of characters at the beginning, you want to crank them back a bit later on. In particular the stealth hit from Running (and to a lesser degree from Berserker) is dangerous. Monsters waking up as you approach is bad.
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Old October 16, 2018, 16:55   #17
Pete Mack
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Tome Archery is massively powerful if you specialize in it. Multiple extra shots with a crossbow, ammo manufacture, and piercing shot make for some powerful possibilities. Piercing shot in particular turns the bow into a beam weapon, although collecting ammo is a pain afterwards. (Also, ammo almost never breaks for a high level archer.)
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Old October 16, 2018, 16:57   #18
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Berserker also ruins your saving throw, doesn't it?

I generally ignore the movement modifier, because the stealth penalties are heinous for a relatively small speed bonus, and in the other directions, the speed penalties are massive for a relatively small stealth bonus. I do set my tactics to Cowardly since I play casters, though; it's free bonuses effectively. IMO the movement/tactics thing is not a very interesting set of options.

Stealth is really helpful especially in the Barrow-Downs, where you're likely to encounter flying breeders that can render a level uninhabitable very quickly if you don't kill them before they wake up.
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Old October 16, 2018, 17:10   #19
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Tactics settings was actually the biggest turn off last time I took a look of Tome 2. My character needed to switch to berserk to hit but you had to switch away from berserk to open a locked door. Switching is free making optimal play a constant switching of tactics. Now if I got over this, plus a bunch of other flaws in the game I suspect I'd find a fun game underneath this muck. But when your confronted with broken mechanics right from the get go (& reading discussion on Tome 2 suggests it's broken all the way through), I mean that makes me reluctant to even bother with the game.

(AH if your reading I'd suggest doing something about Tactics setting. There seems more bad then good here)
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Old October 16, 2018, 19:21   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
The Lost Sword quests are worth doing eventually, because they can give you access to out-of-class skills at up to a .5x multiplier (requires getting the same skill reward from three different quests). In particular, Mindcrafting can be a godsend for a lot of characters because it offers nearly unparalleled utility at very cheap SP costs.
Tip: if you plan on maximizing a Lost Sword skill (such as Mindcraft or Mimicry, also interesting for the free damage reduction), don't put any skill points on it until you reach .5x multiplier in it.
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The Orc Cave special level is definitely a good source of power for young characters. Too bad the artifacts are so well-hidden; IIRC they're blocked behind blank granite walls. So bring a means of digging and some Object Detection scrolls.
I believe that the layout of that level is fixed, so if you don't mind spoilers just open s_death.map and check where the fixed artifacts are. (And if you don't like spoilers and cheesy mechanics why are you even playing this game?)
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