Do we need points based stat generation at all?

[DavidMedley]

Originally Posted by bughunter

I'm a relative noob, especially when it comes to the esoterica of point-based stat generation. Can someone please explain it in a little more detail?

Pretty much everything I know about where to put your points is in here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=133942851

The DEX "Blows Index" is probably the most important one. I set this one first at 10, 17 or 18/20. Sometimes I'll put a leftover point to get 18 because you get everything except more blows.

For half-casters, I think the 13 and 15 levels for INT or WIS are crucial. For others, it is often worth a point or two to get an improvement in save or devices imo. For full casters I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. You can put in 8 points or more, or you can spread them around to be more well-rounded. Pretty sure I always end up with 5-8 points in a full caster's prime requisite.

For CON, 14 and 18 are great because they improve recovery times from stunning, poison and cuts. Many players don't care about the extra HP, but going from 14 to 18 gives an extra 5 HP every 4 levels, plus the recovery gain, and that seems worthwhile to me if you can find the points. But going from 9 to 13 and 14 to 17 isn't worth much.

Finally, STR is the most important stat overall. It doesn't have the same break-point benefits as the others, but I put 4-8 points in this no matter the class. If you know the weight of the weapon you'll be using then you can use Blows Coefficient breakpoints. For example, the Blackguard starts with a 10 lb Tulwar, and therefore get extra blows at STR 18, 18/20 and 18/40. I'll put in that 8th point to hit one of these, but not to hit 18/10 or 18/30. The Carry Limit is very useful for all classes.

I don't like spending 12 points on anything. That's 3 extra statgain potions you'll need later.

[whartung]

Develop the mechanism to capture the algorithm in a text file.

Provide a default algorithm.

Allow it to be specialized for class and class/race combos.

Provide one for the Blackguard.

Let the community do the rest, like macros.

It's there any reason the algorithm can't be a simple list of desired stats?

For example, using your default:

STR=17,DEX=18/10,(INT,CON)=16

Which reads:

Allocate points to 17 STR
Allocate points to 18/10 DEX
Allocate 1 point to INT, then CON, one at a time, until both are 16.

I could be that simple, then just tag it for class or class/race. And then let fly.

For you default, you may have to create a specialization for, say, priests to use WIS instead of INT.

But, no need out the gate to do one for everything. Just let folks customize it to their liking, and over time, recipes will start to accumulate.

[Nick]

Some further thoughts:

• I agree with David's point that spending 12 on anything is a bad deal
• I agree with Pete's point (from 2009) that CON is undervalued
• I think the current immediate spend of 8 on STR is probably correct (although maybe not for half-trolls)
• I feel like break-points are really only interesting for DEX and blows, and then only for warriors, paladins, and probably rangers and rogues (maybe priests and druids are slightly interested?)
• I think full casters, especially mages and necros, want to spend big on their spell stat

This is probably getting pretty close to an algorithm.

[DavidMedley]

Seems closer to specifying a default buy for each class, which is easier anyway.

[Werbaer]

I always spend 12 points on the spell stat as a pure caster. Getting the stat up to 18/50 is huge. And with an internal stat of 18, you only need one stat (swap) potion to get real good benefits.

[Pete Mack]

Werbaer: 18/40 is fine. You get plenty of mana, and it won't take that long to find a +stat item (ring, amulet, or helmet, or even *slay* weapon.)

[Estie]

With non-casters, I always spend 12 points on Str. The combination of carrying capacity and melee damage makes it too important. Finding another 4 con potions later is of no concern, as they are frequent plus theres ent draughts and toughness and augmentation. Also, when the time comes to switch to con gear, it often so happens that equipping the stuff acquired by then overshoots 18/200 con anyway.

Possibly im a little biased from playing with randarts; unlike in standart games, where youre almost guaranteed a good dagger early on, you have to be ready to wield heavier weapons asap.

Its a case of early advantage vs delayed gratification and I am all in the early advantage camp on this one.

[DavidMedley]

You make a compelling case. Maybe I'll give it a try.

[DavidMedley]

Nah, I just can't buy it. Give me 4 points somewhere else. Only Warriors could maybe behave like they have 3 dump stats.