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Old January 11, 2021, 13:04   #31
Selkie
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I always maintain rogues would be a much more interesting class if they had something like "slit throat".

An attack that can only be used on a sleeping enemy and doubles or triples the normal melee damage. It makes sense, because a sleeping enemy could be very specifically targeted to cause maximum damage and would make stealth a vital ingredient.

If you got this around cl30, maybe as the final spell in the town spellbook then it would work well for diving well below what would normally be advised for cl.

Also, rogues are supposed to be loveable scum bags who aren't afraid to fight dirty. There's no honour among thieves
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Old January 11, 2021, 18:19   #32
Pete Mack
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Once you hit legendary, stealth stops helping. Legendary stealth really is fun. Tiptoe right past Huan or the Tarrasque--or both at once, for that matter.
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Old January 11, 2021, 20:24   #33
Sky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Interesting comments on Hit and Run - I haven't thought very hard about it, maybe it could use some work.

In FAangband, rogues get native backstab ability rather than a spell, and that is always a possibility for Vanilla.
Make Sleep Monsters Great Again
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Old January 11, 2021, 20:38   #34
bughunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
Once you hit legendary, stealth stops helping. Legendary stealth really is fun. Tiptoe right past Huan or the Tarrasque--or both at once, for that matter.
Funny you mentioned that because my current rogue has had to tiptoe past the Tarrasque for the past five out of six levels.

The first time I thought he was ready to take out the big purple R, but damn, that bugger's breath hits hard and often.

I think he might be the only unique left, except for Sauron and Morgoth. He keeps appearing, and only him.

(Bumblef*ck found a nice randart staff that does almost 500 dpr, over 800 vs undead, and I love the mental image of a 2'6" halfling laying down some hurt with 6 feet of oak. But the Tarrasque just don't care.)
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Old January 11, 2021, 20:46   #35
bughunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Interesting comments on Hit and Run - I haven't thought very hard about it, maybe it could use some work.
It occured to me that there is potential for abuse with a Backstab on sleeping monsters (either spell or native ability) combined with a _Sleep Monsters. At least at early- and midgame when the monsters aren't immune.

But there are some high-level U and W I would *love* to be able to take down to half HP with a x2 or x3 damage attack before they wake up and start their s**t.
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Old January 12, 2021, 09:18   #36
Sky
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see, for example, the Tarrasque is a monster that just won't wake up, no matter what. You don't need high stealth to dance around him.
You got
1. mobs which are always awake - stealth does nothing
2. mobs which will wake even with high stealth, like dragonflies or bats
3. mobs which sleep so hard, you need to attack them - stealth does nothing
4. a few annoying mobs and uniques where stealth really matters, because it's early game and you have no escapes or TO and can't really buff yourself for the fight - Mim, Kim, etc, the Orc captains, Angmaite and his brother, etc.
At most, you'll use stealth to avoid Lorgan. But by the time you get to greater wyrms, stealthing is't necessary anymore - kill it, teleport it, or escape.

i get that walking past a 1-breath-dead monster can be exhilarating, but if you are finding yourself in those situations enough to value stealth, then maybe that's the reason you die so often.

FYI, in that ONE situation where you get a ridiculously OOD mob in a vault on early levels, don't try to stealth in, just get away.
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Old January 14, 2021, 01:17   #37
wv_wxman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neigeden View Post
I just found Red Dragon Scale Mail (-2) [24, +29] <+2, +1> {??} at dlv 18 with a level feeling of just 3‽ I think it's Dwarven (it has +2 to Str and Con and +1 to infra) but I forget what else Dwarven egos have.

This just confirms to me that level feelings are not worth paying too much attention to, but it makes me wonder whether I understand how the feelings work, or whether DSM is more common than I thought at lower levels.

Thoughts?
Oooh, I just beat this.

At 350' - an amulet of ESP, lying in the floor.
At 450' - on a 7-9 level, I took out a wimpy ant pit. In said pit? PDSM.

Yikes.
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Old January 14, 2021, 04:41   #38
DavidMedley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
stealthing is't necessary
Is this a commonly held belief??
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Old January 14, 2021, 05:35   #39
Sky
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Is this a commonly held belief??
i don't know, maybe you should make a poll. Frankly i kill everything i can kill so for years i didnt even know stealth existed. And if i cant kill it i teleport it. And if i cant teleport it i leave.
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Old January 14, 2021, 06:08   #40
Estie
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Stealth is not necessary; you can use it to great advantage, _if_ you are willing to change your play style which Sky is not.
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