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Old May 24, 2017, 00:50   #21
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Originally Posted by Gwarl View Post
Significantly better in most situations, since most of my enemies weren't using elemental attacks. These days I will tolerate a -1 or -2 speed. I found it in the DL20's IIRC.

Honestly, try consciously aiming for high AC when playing and then switch it all out for some much lower AC gear and see if you notice that you take more damage. the difference between robe/adamantite was huge, I will sometimes take a -1 to speed to switch soft leather armour for brigandine. It is worth it. Another case in point is red book caster's shield spell - you can turn on your AC bonus and notice you're getting hurt less even when your AC is already high.
I have been playing since the Moria days and my assessment of the value of AC doesnt stem from lack of experimentation.
I am using the shield spell in the right situations and yes you take less damage in heavy armour. That is not in question. What is in question is what are you dropping when pressed, AC or resist ? AC is luxury, not necessity.
Getting double breathed at without resistance kills without giving you a chance to react, while you dont commonly die in 1 round from melee.
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Old May 24, 2017, 01:48   #22
Pete Mack
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You might want to try Sil...
Originally Posted by Gwarl View Post
Significantly better in most situations, since most of my enemies weren't using elemental attacks. These days I will tolerate a -1 or -2 speed. I found it in the DL20's IIRC.
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Old May 24, 2017, 10:53   #23
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Gwarl appears to have an entirely different style of play from what is standard (and optimal).

Most of us try not to be in any situations where we could die. In order not to die, we control our situations (detection, teleportation, healing, LOS), and make sure that in no turn is it possible that we die. It doesn't always work out, but that's the idea. This means increasing HP and increasing resistances, so that the maximum damage goes down, and also increasing speed so that we can't be double-moved. AC has a relatively minor effect on the maximum damage, and a moderate effect on average damage, which makes it unimportant. This is the same reason Nether resistance is so much less valuable than the other resists. Average damage reduction conserves healing, and if you're using scarce resources in a fight, something is clearly wrong. If you're not using scarce resources, it doesn't matter very much at all.

Gwarl seems to focus on what is useful in most situations. This, I believe, is a mistake, since most situations aren't ones you die in. Most of the time, -1 or -2 speed won't give the monster a double-move, but the danger of a double-move is significant. Similarly, most monsters won't threaten you with resistable attacks, but the ones that will are dangerous. If you create a 1% chance of dying in 1% of situations (magic attacks and double-moves), and reduce your chance of dying by 0.1% in 5% of situations (scary melee), then you've increased your chance of dying per situation significantly. In reality, the calculation is probably going to be even worse.

This seems like it would help if you die a lot in melee, but if that happens, the problem is your playstyle, not your AC. Either you don't have enough escapes, or you wait too long to heal, or you choose to engage the wrong monsters. The only one that AC helps with is the third, since it allows you to engage more monsters, but it's not a significant effect.
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Old May 24, 2017, 11:08   #24
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you guys are focusing too much on the damage reduction and not on the to-hit chances. what matters is that "the orc misses you" message.
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Old May 24, 2017, 11:11   #25
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It's true I'm a very risky player and happily accept a 5% chance of death to check out some promising loot. This is probably why I've never actually won. I do enjoy Sil though.

AC vs resistances seems like a false dichotomy though. I think AC works well and resistances are broken. I'd like to see Oangband style partial resistances find their way into V.
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