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Old May 2, 2014, 17:16   #11
MattB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
In any event, the effect would be to make acid really hard on your armor while doing next to nothing to the character -- but with a clean transition to doing normal damage to the character when their gear becomes immune to acid.
But why would acid suddenly start damaging someone just because they are now wearing clothing that's immune to acid?
Seems backwards to me...
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Old May 2, 2014, 18:04   #12
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB View Post
But why would acid suddenly start damaging someone just because they are now wearing clothing that's immune to acid?
Seems backwards to me...
The acid neutralizes itself in eating up the armor; if the armor cannot interact chemically with the acid, then the acid is not neutralized.
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Old May 2, 2014, 18:14   #13
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Acid splashes will not necessarily land entirely on armoured pieces of the body. Depending on the equipment worn, you might be splashed on bare hands, face, head, feet, etc. If you've previously had acid eat away part of the armour, you might also have holes in the armour that let another acid attack land on flesh. Or you might be able to cover your exposed parts with a shield between you and the attacker.

We had a change for 3.5 where elemental attacks now do some part of all attacks as physical damage (or something like that). Acid should be similar I think, with modifiers for equipment, but otherwise I think Derakon is onto something.
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Old May 2, 2014, 18:31   #14
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So I'm hearing "Acid attacks should be more dangerous"
Definitely. If acid only affects equipment and inventory it can't be allowed to be a base element. Let alone the most common element early on. We either need to make it kill players, or replace it with a different element. When was the last time an acid attack directly killed someone's character? If acid or a replacement of it starts to kill characters we have a harder game (not a bad thing, I think) and an interesting, annoying, but rare effect in the form of acid.

What to replace acid with. Water? Stun players for fun and death? Switching around the positions of water and acid could be fun. We'd have to remove some of the unnecessary acid monsters, we'd have existentially dangerous early hounds and the universal horror of the players.
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Old May 2, 2014, 18:40   #15
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
How about this: give each piece of armor HP equal to 10 * current AC (so unenchanted Soft Leather Armor would have 80 HP, for example). If acid attacks the armor, then the armor loses HP; for every 10 HP it loses it loses 1 AC. Acid deals all of its damage to armor, if it can; it only hurts the player if the armor cannot be damaged by acid (either because it's immune or because it has no more HP).

You could also make it just be "10 acid damage = lose 1 AC" but then small acid attacks either get ignored or get overly large influence. That might be worth the simplification though.

In any event, the effect would be to make acid really hard on your armor while doing next to nothing to the character -- but with a clean transition to doing normal damage to the character when their gear becomes immune to acid.

Or make it really gamey. If all my armour is acid resistant do I carry around some junk armour to switch to when defending against acid attacks? In the example above soft leather is good for a -80 damage reduction on acid if I switch. I suspect this solution would cause more problems then it solves.
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Old May 2, 2014, 18:52   #16
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Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
Or make it really gamey. If all my armour is acid resistant do I carry around some junk armour to switch to when defending against acid attacks? In the example above soft leather is good for a -80 damage reduction on acid if I switch. I suspect this solution would cause more problems then it solves.
That is a fair point, though I question whether people would really do this considering acid hits random equipment slots. My main goal was to make it so that acid was devastating to armor when applied in mass quantities (and correspondingly less nasty when applied 1 point at a time), instead of merely a gradual degradation that happened to the same degree regardless of how much damage was mitigated. Do you have any suggestions that would accomplish that goal without being gamey?
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Old May 2, 2014, 18:57   #17
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Well, since the issue would be mostly that equipment resistant to acid would cause you to take more damage, the simple solution is to do AC damage to armor according to damage soaked up, without making armor that is immune to acid soak up less. I doubt people would actually exploit this, since it costs as many slots as you use, is unreliable and makes you weaker for the time you use it (taking off Isildur to avoid a bit of acid damage would be completely stupid).
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Old May 2, 2014, 19:13   #18
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So it has to randomly hit a slot of acid vulnerable equipment? I guess that's a little better & harder to game. It's still creating a situation where acid resistance on equipment is a dangerous thing, which feels a little artifical. Surely acid resistance is good? Realistically (& yes I know realism is a problematic argument, but still) it's going to provide better protection. If acid creatures became dangerous you would have to consider how much acid resistant gear you can safely wear & even there it would be playing the odds (whoops it breathed on my cloak, now I'm dead. If only it had breathed on the armour underneath the cloak!!)

& yeah I don't have a better idea at the moment. Actually the 1st half of your solution I can agree with (armour has hp vs acid damage). It's the 2nd half, acid resistant gear makes you highly acid vulnerable, that doesn't sit so well.

Edit: Second problem. I'm wearing 20 AC body armour, 1 AC cloak. So 1 in 6 I absorb 200, 1 in 6 I absorb 10. Seems a little large a spread to leave to chance. If you divided large blocks in to multiple small blocks it would be better (So 100 might be 4x25 or 1 in 6x6x6x6 to all hit the vulnerable pt). Makes more sense for splash damage any way.

Edit2: Agree with debo below.

Last edited by wobbly; May 2, 2014 at 19:47.
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Old May 2, 2014, 19:37   #19
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Sure make acid more dangerous, that's actually a good idea. But the variety of monsters in the early game is awful, and that is actually what I'm calling out as the problem. Giving some of them (water hounds and vortices eg) a mild chance to stun, for example, could be neat.

None of this changes the fact that a huge number of early game monsters hit to shoot acid, despite the fact that they are all thematically different. It seems very uninspired to me. Hit to hunger, hit to drain stats, hit to confuse, hit to blind, hit for mega damage, hit to teleport! Any of those could potentially be used as more frequent replacements, because right now the variety in the first fifth of the game is pretty terrible imo

I specifically think melee attacks that cause combat stat drain are especially underutilized in the early game, as they would provide early setbacks that can be potentially large but that can also be quickly corrected (by leveling up)

It's like someone went through the monster list once and every time they couldn't think of how to make an early game monster both "interesting" and manageable, they just gave it acid melee.
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Last edited by debo; May 2, 2014 at 19:43.
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Old May 2, 2014, 20:05   #20
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+1 for less acid critters.
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