Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 14, 2011, 00:53   #1
Angelus
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 19
Angelus is on a distinguished road
Preserve mode

I've been playing angband for a few years now (had my first win as a high-elf ranger last summer, since then I've also won as a hobbit mage and a half-troll warrior), though I only joined the forums recently.

I've noticed reading the forums (yes, I've been reading without posting for a good long while now...) that almost everyone seems to play with preserve mode on now, and I'm kind of curious as to why that is the case.

After my first win, I was looking to make the game a bit more challenging, so I tried turning preserve mode off. Much to my surprise, it actually did not make the game any harder-if anything, possibly slightly easier(very hard to measure that though-it was easier to get artifacts, but it also makes vaults much more dangerous). In fact, for me at least it makes the game a lot more fun. It allows me to be certain that a level is worthwhile, and encourages me to clear that level instead of just finding the nearest staircase and diving.

Special feelings tend to be rare enough that if you only stop diving every time there's a special feeling, you end up stopping about once every 5-10 levels all the way down to Morgoth. One thing I always hated about preserve mode was the way it encouraged diving to level 98 and then staying there until getting all the necessary equipment to take on Sauron and then Morgoth. With preserve mode off, by the time I get to level 98 I'm usually ready to go straight to Sauron. It makes the game feel much more balanced, because it gradually gets harder as you get deeper, and your equipment usually gets better at about the same rate as you dive. Usually during a game I'll miss 2-5 artifacts, which has never made a big difference in gameplay.

The game doesn't even really feel much slower played this way, and the turncounts on my last two winners have been pretty decent (around 450k for the mage, and 400k for the warrior). I also like the fact that playing this way means I never miss a vault (though obviously it makes vaults considerably more dangerous and costly-which in my opinion makes the game even more fun-greater risk).

So, basically, I'm curious as to what other people think of playing without preserve mode. I'm honestly not sure if I could go back to playing with preserve mode on, to me playing without it make the game far more playable and interesting.

Also, this is slightly unrelated, but if the devs could fix the bug that causes artifacts in monster inventories to cause special feelings in the next nightly, it would be greatly appreciated. The current nightly is almost unplayable because around level 40 about every other level produces a special feeling (and clearing that many levels is silly). And I'd like to encourage devs to maintain support for those of us playing without preserve mode being on, we greatly appreciate it
Angelus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14, 2011, 04:53   #2
Bahman Rabii
Scout
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 31
Bahman Rabii is on a distinguished road
I was a strict preserve=no player for years. On my recent comeback game I deliberately played with all default birth options, and I had to admit that I like preserve=yes a lot better.

The trouble with no preserve is that you sometimes hit a series of 4-5 special levels in a row, which you feel compelled to tediously clear.

If I am playing a class with great detection spells, or if I have a good supply of enlightment potions, this problem goes away and special levels purely make the game easier. When I am low on detection, I dread them as boring.

There is probably a more creative solution to preserve mode and artifacts, but I have not thought of it.
Bahman Rabii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14, 2011, 08:45   #3
Jazerus
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Jazerus is on a distinguished road
I find a better way to encourage myself to move quickly is to turn on nosell; due to increased coin drops you accumulate money at roughly the same rate as normal, but without the tedium of recalling after every decent level with a bunch of terrible ego items to get rid of. Using no preserve to encourage fast play carries a lot more risks than nosell.
Jazerus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14, 2011, 14:12   #4
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,060
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus View Post
Also, this is slightly unrelated, but if the devs could fix the bug that causes artifacts in monster inventories to cause special feelings in the next nightly, it would be greatly appreciated. The current nightly is almost unplayable because around level 40 about every other level produces a special feeling (and clearing that many levels is silly). And I'd like to encourage devs to maintain support for those of us playing without preserve mode being on, we greatly appreciate it
I am really pleased that someone really likes preserve off mode. It was totally broken for many years, so I had been under the impression that nobody used it. In fact, I've had to persuade takkaria not to nuke it on more than one occasion!

Thank you for pointing out this bug - it's not trivial to fix because the object generation code (which sets the flag for the 'special' feeling) does not know if it's generating a floor object or a carried object, but it can be done. I've opened ticket #1466 for this, and I'll try to fix it for 3.3

Incidentally, how do you like the new level feelings in the nightlies?
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14, 2011, 15:12   #5
Timo Pietilä
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilä is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Incidentally, how do you like the new level feelings in the nightlies?
I have a question about those: Which one is for monsters and which is for items? They are not very clear to me.

It's like getting "you feel that this is a boring place and and you think will get bored here".
Timo Pietilä is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14, 2011, 15:18   #6
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,060
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä View Post
I have a question about those: Which one is for monsters and which is for items? They are not very clear to me.

It's like getting "you feel that this is a boring place and and you think will get bored here".
As ever, there's a lot of room for improvement in the text!

The first one is for danger - it talks about safe / peaceful / uneasy / nervous / bad / dangerous / nasty. The second one is for loot, which uses bored / dull / worthwhile / lucky / good / excellent / superb.

All feedback is welcome.
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14, 2011, 15:42   #7
jens
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Posts: 348
jens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
As ever, there's a lot of room for improvement in the text!

The first one is for danger - it talks about safe / peaceful / uneasy / nervous / bad / dangerous / nasty. The second one is for loot, which uses bored / dull / worthwhile / lucky / good / excellent / superb.

All feedback is welcome.
I never had any problems understanding which was which, but then I started by looking in the code

I've got one issue I'm not sure others will agree on: Using the word 'boring', it sort of suggests that I, the player, will be bored, and I'd prefer not to have the game suggest that to me Though I have not tried to think of any alternatives yet...

What is the reasoning behind having so many feelings as we have? Specially now that we have 9x9 I feel it's a bit too many...
jens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14, 2011, 16:28   #8
d_m
Angband Devteam member
 
d_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Age: 42
Posts: 1,516
d_m is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
I never had any problems understanding which was which, but then I started by looking in the code

I've got one issue I'm not sure others will agree on: Using the word 'boring', it sort of suggests that I, the player, will be bored, and I'd prefer not to have the game suggest that to me Though I have not tried to think of any alternatives yet...

What is the reasoning behind having so many feelings as we have? Specially now that we have 9x9 I feel it's a bit too many...
I agree that any feeling that sounds like "boring/dull/safe/quiet" should just be "". If that means you only get a danger feeling sometimes then that seems fine to me.
__________________
linux->xterm->screen->pmacs
d_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14, 2011, 16:40   #9
Angelus
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 19
Angelus is on a distinguished road
Bahman-I rarely find that I get more than 2 special feelings in a row, even extremely deep in the dungeon. You might want to try playing without preserve again, as I think artifact/object generation may have changed a bit in the last five years or so. Sometimes I find clearing levels enjoyable, as it gives more of a feeling of completeness, knowing that I haven't missed anything on the level. But yeah, without decent detection it's a pain-but I usually find that by dl 30 or so I have at least traps and treasure detection, if not full detection-that, combined with teleportation can make clearing a level fairly quick. Usually I'll only find about one artifact before level 30, so I rarely if ever have to go into a special level with no detection at all.

Jazerus-I actually only play no-sell now...it sometimes gets annoying when I see something really valuable in the black market that I just don't have the money for, but it definitely reduces trips to the town, and makes the entire game more enjoyable.

Magnate-I'm honestly not a particularly big fan of the new level feelings. To me, one of the biggest problems in gameplay is the dynamic of going down to level 30 or 40, and then going straight from 40 to 98 without hardly stopping, and I think this will only encourage both diving and scumming. With separate level feelings, it really only makes sense to stop at levels with a high object feeling to monster feeling ratio (I mean, dying is not particularly fun, and OOD monsters can be annoying that way). To me, getting special feelings when an artifact is on a level tells me that the level is definitely worthwhile, without giving me an idea of whether or not the level is "safe." I also found when playing with them (though I only played for a short while before getting annoyed by the bug I mentioned with special feelings) that the game got significantly easier earlier on, because it vastly upped the chances of finding decent items earlier in the game. They're not *terrible* per se, but for me at least they slightly decreased the enjoyability of the game.
Angelus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14, 2011, 17:16   #10
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,024
Derakon is on a distinguished road
I just turned level feelings off and never looked back. IMO they don't contribute positively to gameplay. If you want to know if anything good is on the level, then go explore the level to find out. Otherwise, if you miss something juicy, oh well; there's always another level.

Obviously this works less well when playing with preserve off.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Preserve mode Magnate Vanilla 45 May 12, 2011 13:23
preserve and no id PowerDiver Vanilla 17 June 9, 2009 07:14
"preserve mode" vorondil Vanilla 1 December 10, 2008 02:54
Preserve mode curinor Variants 4 October 22, 2008 02:50
Preserve Option? Narvius Vanilla 3 April 20, 2008 19:37


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.