![]() |
#11 |
Knight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 578
![]() |
At first reading, this sounds more like the outcomes of a skill tree than distinct classes.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Adept
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Utah
Posts: 193
![]() |
I've always liked the idea of removing spellcasting from rogues entirely, but giving them some sort of magic-device-related boon to make up for that. Always seemed weird that rogues were running around casting spells from magic tomes, but the idea that they come upon some nifty magic devices in their life of "treasure hunting" that they've learned to use well jives well enough.
I mean, even if it's just a flavor thing in giving them a unique spellbook they use that isn't called a spellbook, but rather described as ... I don't know, some kind of magical doodad that can be activated for the effects. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,525
![]() |
Quote:
There is a problem with that. Namely, that melee has a bunch of modifiers that affect its damage - straightforward +damage on gear, +str, +str/+dex which add attacks, extra blows, whatnot. Archery has only 2 - extra shots and might. That is already a bad situation if you compare the artifact list of the plethora of melee weapons with the few possible combinations for launchers. Sofar, a ranger might not necessarily prefer a bow with extra shots. If you give him extra might, he always will. If, as I believe, your objective is to reduce the relative damage increase, pretty much every other way is preferable to "more extra might" - a straight damage adder, fractional shots, a brand multiplier increase, you name it. Your suggestion would lead to zero variance itemisation. I think I would add in a 3rd way of increasing damage to archery - not necessarily by adding it to the archer class (only). That would make the possible combinations more interesting and it also would reduce the weight of both the existing modifiers, shots and might. Off weapon straight damage would be the natural choice, but other ways can be conceived. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
Vanilla maintainer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 6,953
Donated: $60
![]() |
Quote:
As a first cut, making +1 extra shots actually +1/3 extra shots is maybe worth thinking about.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | ||||
Vanilla maintainer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 52
Posts: 6,953
Donated: $60
![]() |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In what way?
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,303
![]() |
Quote:
__________________
PWMAngband variant maintainer - check http://powerwyrm.monsite-orange.fr (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,525
![]() |
Quote:
If you are adjusting the damage to that of a melee fighter (and call that balance), it will become pointless indeed. The thing is that the weight on the other scale is hassle; an ugly and imo undesirable, but effective factor. The ranger pushes some ridiculous numbers when it comes to fighting the boss, but along the way, it is better to be the rogue. The nightmare is a ranged fighter who plinks on endlessly, doing tiny pixels of damage for every normal monster. Even if he can do that undisturbed and has an easy time with it, its undesirable gameplay. My favoured take on this is burst damage. It was kindof well established in 3.0.0 or thereabouts with rare, but very damaging branded arrows. Unfortunately, it also requires the equally ugly non-stacking of ammo to work properly. If burst is the solution, I see 2 options: for easy fights where you save resources, you eirther use basic arrows - probably in the form of a default attack not requiring any actual item arrows at all, and therefore no micromanagement - or you use melee. Why dont you like the damage bumps at level 20/40 ? As a player, I prefer that to a pointless and barely noticable trickle of power from 0.1 bpr/level. It is something to look forward to and the phase of great damage is preceded by one of low damage you have to work through before the joy. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
Swordsman
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 263
![]() |
The biggest hassle when playing a ranger is collecting arrows after fight. Consider making arrows always disappear after being shot. That will remove the hassle and also make rangers so balanced that perhaps increasing their damage will be a good idea
![]() Some people will say "but that's not realistic!". Then these guys go ahead and play a game where zero dimensional characters take turns on a two dimensional surface, which is realistic enough to them ![]() Last edited by t4nk; February 26, 2018 at 15:53. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 | |
Prophet
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,202
![]() |
Quote:
I'm absolutely not opposed to giving other things to archers, and I'm all in favor of giving nice, chunky power boosts to them. I just don't think that extra shots fits into that worldview. Perhaps an Archer class could get a set of spells that let them fire magic arrows from their mana pool, instead of real arrows from their inventory. The stats and per-arrow mana cost would depend on the spell, so e.g. they might start out with a spell that produces 1d4 weak-fire-branded arrows for 1SP apiece (roughly on par with Magic Missile), and in the late game they'd have a spell to produce *Slay* Dragon 3d4+10 ammo for 40SP apiece, or something like that. The idea being that they could start each fight off with a flurry of magic arrows that do good damage against their target (whatever it might be), but they'll run out of SP before the target dies, so they still need to carry physical ammunition. Meanwhile, against low-level enemies, they can just use the magic arrows exclusively, and not have any inventory hassle. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
Swordsman
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Posts: 323
![]() |
Perhaps Rogues could become the new archer class if they lose (most?) magic - then they fill the archer and stealthy niches. Maybe a U power that does non-fuzzy detection, or give them a telepathy-like detection power that automatically detects treasure and whose radius grows with level?
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Class/magic feature branch | Nick | Vanilla | 492 | Yesterday 23:22 |
Attention casters: dungeon books are now artifacts | Magnate | v4 | 60 | April 14, 2012 14:56 |
Success of pure casters? | Chud | Vanilla | 14 | April 9, 2011 16:27 |
Ranger magic... | miyazaki | Vanilla | 43 | April 30, 2010 00:35 |
Casters and gloves? | EvilScoop | Vanilla | 6 | March 1, 2008 06:33 |