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Old March 9, 2018, 22:48   #31
Sideways
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
A couple nitpicks. Going slow does not require you to clear levels, and you should not do so. A level clearer does not have a safe level to teleport into. If you rely on having a clear space to teleport into you will probably die, when something capable of moderate burst damage breathes on you after you teleported away from a vault with 130 hp.
I think you overestimate the risk (and monster generation rates on cleared levels) because level clearing isn't something you do. It's true the risk isn't zero, but it's really very close to zero; so close to zero as to be vanishingly unlikely to kill you even over the course of a long game. The risk may be higher in older versions or variants with different monster spawning, but in today's Angband teleports like that are essentially safe, unless Nick changed things since I last played Vanilla. (Also, it's not true that new monsters will spawn awake, at least not in 3.5.1 which Moving Pictures is playing. They spawn with their usual sleep status, which for most of them is asleep.)

That said, of course it's still not the ideal solution. But if a scroll of phase door is guaranteed to put you into a known space with no monsters (say, you're in a zigzagging anti-summoning corridor and there's just the one monster around and you were meleeing him), that's a perfectly safe escape.
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Old March 9, 2018, 23:26   #32
Philip
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You don't have to fight uniques, though in the first 40 levels or so, it's one of the few reliable ways of generating an object as good, which can be quite handy. Never fight Gorlim he is bad. The other uniques, I recommend not fighting, essentially. Some of the late-game ones you might want to fight to avoid them getting summoned in to the final fight, but there is no good reason ever to fight, like, Vargo or someone.

You don't really have to fight uniques to get stuff later on, and you don't have to fight most of them to keep them out of the final fight. They are a fun challenge, but if you would like to win, I recommend waiting until you serious out-level them. And don't fight Kavlax or Gorlim.

In your situation, I would focus on, say, ancient dragons, like you seem to have already done. They drop pretty well on average, give good xp, and they are relatively easy to take out, especially if you have temp speed and distance attacks. Less good for xp but pretty good for stuff are ordinary boring pack monsters, vrocks (don't fight them in melee though). Dunno about anything else at your dlvl, really. Mostly just avoid undead and things that can summon, because that stuff can get out of hand.
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Old March 9, 2018, 23:45   #33
Moving Pictures
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Originally Posted by Philip View Post
You don't have to fight uniques, though in the first 40 levels or so, it's one of the few reliable ways of generating an object as good, which can be quite handy. Never fight Gorlim he is bad. The other uniques, I recommend not fighting, essentially. Some of the late-game ones you might want to fight to avoid them getting summoned in to the final fight, but there is no good reason ever to fight, like, Vargo or someone.
Vargo. Fire elemental. Went down ea.... no, no, I would *never* do that.

Quote:
And don't fight Kavlax or Gorlim.
Ran into Kavlax. On a 5-7 level, 37 or so. Made the error of "ooh, that's just a big multi-coloured dragon ..., failed to verify, and then had a near-death experience.


Here's a question: how come "slow monster" almost never works? I am seriously thinking about ditching the rods of slow I have, since anything they can/do slow, I can handle, and anything I really need them to slow, they don't.
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Old March 9, 2018, 23:49   #34
Philip
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Eh, everyone has to learn that the elemental uniques are useless wastes of time somehow. All the other uniques before them have at least one drop, so it makes sense to assume they will too.

I don't actually know how status effects work these days, I'm afraid.
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Old March 10, 2018, 01:40   #35
Madoka
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I'm a bit of a newbie myself, having never won the game.

Has the player been unlucky in his drops? He doesn't seem to have gotten a lot of good swag, especially weapons. I'm usually able to ditch the "thanc" daggers by the time I get to level 40. Is part of the problem that once he's forced to melee, he can't hit hard enough?
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Old March 10, 2018, 02:55   #36
ewert
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Lots of advice around, but I'll just throw in my generic two cents. I usually play a mix of dive and grind. And I have a bad streak of completionist in me in Angband somehow. Winning the game without killing all the uniques, max level, all resists + immunes feels inadequate.

Anyways, some generic outline hints from me:
Startup, flasks of oil, phase doors, grind levels 2-3 for a couple levels and some cash to get a shooter and basic gear. You better be near stairs or have enough flasks + phases when the dogs come for you.

After you get some basic shooter going for you, drop down to 10. Farm levels for basic resists, FA, SI, an okay melee and ranged weapon. Some game changers are rings of escape for priest/mage/ranger (ez mode... feels like cheating). Depending on how lucky, careful and skilled you are, you can slowly go down to 20 at the same time. Don't pass 20 without base 4 and SI/FA.

The mentioned detect stuff is important. Use hotkeys and @m1 inscriptions on your stuff by the way. And @z1, @q1, @a1 et cetera. So you inscribe your first magic book @m1, and you can cast spells with m1a instead of maa. If your inventory ever changes, you will still get the right spell off. Also MUCH faster, heh. I always have ^D (ctrl-d) as a detect spell, with ^F and ^G as well for detection (with priest currently detection + map level on ^D^F). I commonly use "x" for Cast-my-basic-dmg-spell-at-nearest-monster. The F-keys for spells without autotargeting. "h" is already game-default as "shoot my weakest missile at nearest monster". You can also use your ranged attack first, like "shoot orb of draining at unique behind small monsters", then use "n" to repeat same shot without having to worry about targeting again.

After you feel you can go past 20 (a couple lucky stat-swap potions for your spellcasting stat helps a ton!), start dropping down to mid 30s. This is usually the make or break time. You either die, or you win the game barring inattention and screwing up. In the low/mid 30s, you carefully pick your battles, loots stuff from ground, to get setup with good enough stats (for mage/priest very easy, just int or wis and con), whatever lucky drops you get, good shooter, nexus resist (time lost from having to redo stats is just too darn bad), base4+poison hopefully (you can live without poison but if you need these hints, you probably won't).

Full utility set of stuff! That is confusion/blindness safe stuff (staff of teleport, CCW potions), escapes (method of teleport, teleport level method, potions of speed can be used for escapes too), vault clearing (granite wall digging with wand or something else, teleport other), healing (phase+staves of CLW, lots of CCW, some !healing). Probing if you are still learning the game! When you see a monster that can throw mana storms, or breathe for 1600 damage, disenchant or drain charges with melee hits, et cetera, probing saves the day.

Getting some basic speed is incredibly useful. Depends on luck though. _Enough CON!_ Seriously. The closer you get to 18/200, the better. A +6 =Con is nothing to scoff at!

After that, I often just slowly descend picking my battles. By 50-60 you should have found speed items, if you haven't time to stop again. Slowly you should be maxed stats, getting some lucky finds, have a great weapon/ranged, et cetera. After that it is just not being stupid, not being careless, and continuing on. At some point, usually 60-70s, I reach a point where I just kinda go "alrighty lets roll", and depending on character I just pretty much drop down to 90+ clearing only opportunity targets. With priests, that's usually clearing what look like interesting vaults on the level (spell weaker version of enlightenment is so juicy). I often kill all but the most deadly uniques on the way... but that's me, definitely don't do that if you are new to the deep levels.

Sauron and Morgoth are usually just a tedious chore for me, but that's a whole other topic how to prepare for them.
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Old March 10, 2018, 03:42   #37
Pete Mack
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There is no conflict between vaults and avoiding fights, most of the time.
1. Use stealth. If the monster doesn't wake up, he is no risk
2. Use knight's move exploit to teleport it away. You get a free shot at a monster at the same speed as you, even if TO fails. If you have 0-fail, this is a no-brainer.
3. Take the occasional < 1% risk of dying (with low-fail mage teleport other.) If you take these risks in a controlled manner, the odds of gaining significant character power from a vault will outweigh a low % chance of instadeath.
4. You can sometimes afford to take a monster for a couple turns, but can't afford to actually fight it all the way.
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Old March 10, 2018, 14:28   #38
Moving Pictures
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Update

Alright. I've taken some of the advice here. Now plunged to 50+, at level 42. Picked up longbow "Beltronding" which is really an upgrade on the longbow of power; helping keep things at range. Also nabbed an amulet that gives +CON and law dragon armour.

AC: 167
HP: 622
SP: 261

Question: Lesser balrogs ... attack or avoid at this stage?

My prime concern now is that Narthanc (upped two points with scrolls) remains the melee weapon. Every item found so far, even the specials, don't give me anywhere near the same damage output. (Caithris excluded: ain't gonna touch that baby.)

I'm not getting level drained as much (save for a single all-stat loss caused by a time vortex mugging).

Essentially, I'm stalking dragons at the moment. Keep running into Kevlax, and I figure at some point, I'm going to crack and go after the blighter.

PS: what sadistic mind creates an open vault of vampires? Had a TP level drop me a few spaces down from an open-door vaultish thing of pretty much every flavour of Vlad imaginable. I took advice and bounced out of that level pronto, but ... yeesh!
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Old March 10, 2018, 15:01   #39
Philip
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Definitely don't fight lesser balrogs, they're generally relatively easy to avoid, difficult to fight, and their drops are pretty worthless.

Pits are fun, yes.

If necessary, don't feel too bad about swapping Narthanc out for a stat-stick of some sort, melee shouldn't be too important, especially for a Ranger with Belthronding.

You have enough hp to fight Kavlax probably, it's just still not really going to be worth the expense.

Otherwise you seem to be doing quite fine.
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Old March 11, 2018, 19:28   #40
Moving Pictures
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Ah-hah moment

Figured out another factor to "being mugged" frequently: not centering the character, so that I couldn't see things more than four-six squares if moving to the edge of a screen.

Last edited by Moving Pictures; March 11, 2018 at 19:36.
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