Sangband 1.0.2 and dual wielding

[Malak Darkhunter]

Ok have briefly explored this combination, could not really find any documentation on it, so was wondering in Sang how exactly does dual wielding work? What is the mechanics for it? blows/round and damage and to-hit? whats the positives and the negatives to using dual-wielding?

[Magnate]

Originally Posted by Malak Darkhunter

Ok have briefly explored this combination, could not really find any documentation on it, so was wondering in Sang how exactly does dual wielding work? What is the mechanics for it? blows/round and damage and to-hit? whats the positives and the negatives to using dual-wielding?

As far as I can tell, Camlost hasn't changed this much if at all. From the 1.0.2 source (attack.c, function py_attack):

* (Handling multiple weapons)
* For each legal blow, we try all the available weapons in order. As
* soon as one hits, we go to the next blow without processing any remaining
* weapons. We continue in this fashion until the blow count exceeds that
* of all weapons. Wielding more than one weapon is very powerful because
* the chances of hitting are greatly increased. Because the character
* does NOT get to hit with each weapon each blow, multiple weapons are no
* longer guaranteed to be unbalanced.

There appear to be no damage implications for any of the weapons. (Note that the paragraph is written as if you could wield more than two weapons, but I don't see how.)

I think blows/round are determined solely by the first weapon, but with a restriction that the secondary weapon has to be lighter than the first, or something. I don't remember exactly.

And you get no shield bashes, of course.

[Malak Darkhunter]

thanks magnate for the reply, I still don't understand exactly how this works, I have a gameplay perspective of what I think is happening however.
I have 2 shortsword (+4+8) both wielded in the main hand (A) and the secondary weapon slot (I). Now on my character info screen it shows blows/round listed as 2/2 with the to- hit probability as 63/52 for attack 1 and then attack 2. So I seem to have a penalty for the off hand. Switching to attacking with 1 weapon gives me 2 blows/round with the to-hit probability as 63.

So it appears that no matter wether I use 1 weapon or 2 I still don't gain any blows/round, instead I make an attack with each weapon, the blows per round are split between each weapon. with a to-hit penalty with the 2nd weapon.

Now what I don't understand is why when your wielding 2 weapons why the character info screen shows blows per round as 2/2, when the truth is you never get more than just 2 blows/per round?

[Derakon]

Here's my guess as to what happens, based on what Magnate said:

You swing at a monster. The game rolls a 63% chance to hit with the first weapon. If that fails, then it rolls a 52% chance to hit with the second weapon. Thus your overall chance to hit with either weapon is about 82% (1 - .37 * .48).

Whenever you make a hit (or fail to hit with all weapons?), the number of remaining blows/round for all weapons is reduced by 1. So for example, if you have a 3/1 setup (3 blows with one weapon, 1 blow with the other), then the second weapon only gets to try to help out with 1 of 3 blows you will attempt to make in a given round. Your 2/2 setup just means that each weapon gets to try to help in both blows you try to make.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, Magnate.

[Malak Darkhunter]

sounds beneficial in a way to have a greater chance of landing a blow, but it's balanced to where you technically are not gaining extra blows per round, to be able to do tremendous damage in one round. To sum it up, wielding 2 weapons just gives you a greater probability to land a blow?

[Malak Darkhunter]

Okay I think Camlost, describes what we are saying in this thread.http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=147

[Magnate]

Originally Posted by Malak Darkhunter

Okay I think Camlost, describes what we are saying in this thread.http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=147

Yes, sorry I didn't expand on the direct quote from the source. Dual-wielding in S is purely about getting more chances to hit - you do not do any more damage per hit or get any more blows. If you miss with your primary weapon, you get a swing with your secondary weapon for that blow; that's all. If you hit every time with your primary weapon then your secondary is redundant.

I didn't realise that each weapon had blows calculated separately. That seems a bit odd, but I guess caters for the ability to wield weapons of different weights. Essentially it only makes any difference for the lower number of blows - i.e. if you have 3/2 blows the third blow is just as if you're wielding a single weapon.

I'd also forgotten about the skill penalty. Sorry.