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Old November 9, 2009, 02:02   #21
buzzkill
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May a suggest taking baby steps here. Making small changes at a time, and seeing how they work through feedback. Better to change too little than too much, lest you end up on a slippery slope (formerly useless items, improved, now render formerly useful items useless). Unless, of course, there's some compelling reason why this should be done in one shot.
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Old November 9, 2009, 07:23   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
"Paur"-gloves: add weapon branding property, remove activation, increase depth to 30 and rarity to 5
I agree with everything else Estie has written in this thread, but I think this would be unbalancing. Of course, I probably value these more than anyone else, but weapon branding is huge and this would be almost as strong as a third ring slot.

If you find them too weak as is, how about combining them from 4 into two, matched fire+cold and acid+elec e.g., and merge the random powers as well.

In my current game, I used Paur{fire} for the regen for a long time, even though I had Paur{cold} and no other wielded source of rCold. Perhaps other powers like FA and SI rather than useless slow digestion or feather fall would help too.
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Old November 9, 2009, 16:35   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
If you find them too weak as is, how about combining them from 4 into two, matched fire+cold and acid+elec e.g., and merge the random powers as well.

In my current game, I used Paur{fire} for the regen for a long time, even though I had Paur{cold} and no other wielded source of rCold. Perhaps other powers like FA and SI rather than useless slow digestion or feather fall would help too.
This makes sense to me, I love it when I find Paurhach (fire/regen) early on a non-magic-caster, but I don't think I've ever used any of the others.
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Old November 9, 2009, 16:41   #24
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I've always thought that both Thengel (rConfu) and Thranduil (ESP & rBlind) were too good at those depths/rarities. Holhenneth, too (rBlind, rConfu, activate for detection). The too-powerful Thorin has already drawn comments elsewhere.
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Old November 9, 2009, 21:24   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
These artifacts are junk and should be removed.

Hithlomir
Celegorm
Cammithrim
Camlost

I'm sure I missed a few, but that's a start.

For some others, you could put a maximum depth on them. The thancs are great early, but perhaps not interesting below 3000'.
<snip>
I use these frequently, I am a slow diver and when I find these, they are usually still better than what I have.

For the thancs, try adding +2 dex and attacks. Your first reaction might be that I'm crazy but even with this buff they will only marginally better than other weapons found.

For the gloves, as someone else said, make it _much_ easier to activate and maybe more frequent.
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Old November 9, 2009, 21:58   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
May a suggest taking baby steps here. Making small changes at a time, and seeing how they work through feedback. Better to change too little than too much, lest you end up on a slippery slope (formerly useless items, improved, now render formerly useful items useless). Unless, of course, there's some compelling reason why this should be done in one shot.
Agreed. The first thing I'm going to do is rename it The Helm Of Helm. That's always bugged me.
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Old November 9, 2009, 22:00   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konijn_ View Post
For the thancs, try adding +2 dex and attacks. Your first reaction might be that I'm crazy but even with this buff they will only marginally better than other weapons found.
Ooh - I think they'd be uber with +2 attacks, esp. since one is usually still wearing damage rings at that point. +2 dex is a nice idea though.
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Old November 9, 2009, 22:51   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konijn_ View Post
I use these frequently, I am a slow diver and when I find these, they are usually still better than what I have.
The question is not whether they are better than what you have. The question is whether they are better than a random ego.

Would you prefer Cammithrim, or would you like a random ego from

free action
slaying
power
agility
thievery

Free action is a bit worse, but the chance of getting something better makes the ego lottery a better choice.

I would happily trade Cammithrim for a random ego unless I was way too deep and hadn't found any source of FA, and even then I might still trade. If asked before the game started, I would respond that I would be happier if Cammithrim was not an option.

You cannot judge the artifacts in isolation. You have to compare them to the egos they are replacing.

[edit] Cammithrim's existence also reduces the likelihood that you find Cambeleg, or increases the average time to find Cambeleg, depending on how you look at it.

Last edited by PowerDiver; November 9, 2009 at 23:09.
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Old November 9, 2009, 23:06   #29
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Ooh - I think they'd be uber with +2 attacks, esp. since one is usually still wearing damage rings at that point. +2 dex is a nice idea though.
*thanc with +2 attacks would do 42 dam/turn. That's pretty amazing for low level casters that won't be getting enough str or dex to get multiple blows for some time. More damage than a +9 longbow even.

Narsil used to be my favorite early weapon because of the +2 attacks, and Sting still is if I can find it.
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Old November 9, 2009, 23:19   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
The question is not whether they are better than what you have. The question is whether they are better than a random ego.
I don't agree. Artifacts, as unique items, have more flavor than egos like free action or slaying. They are interesting to find. The game would be less fun if you find artifacts less often, even if they are a little less useful than the egos you find instead.
For me, the game is not about calculating and optimizing my character. It's about having fun exploring the dungeon, killing monsters, and discovering interesting stuff (new monsters*, vaults, interesting/rare objects or egos, artifacts (even useless ones)).
I'd rather find Cammithrim than gauntlets of free action, agility, or slaying simply because it's more fun to discover a unique item. If I found +5 gauntlets of power in the next room, I'd still keep Cammithrim in my home for awhile even though it's pretty unlikely I'd use it at that point. (I'd add a museum / mathom house to DaJAngband if I could figure out how to add another building in the town.)
IMO, an artifact is only junk worth removing if it's something that's supposed to be good (not cursed) that you *always* drop and leave it behind as soon as you find out what it is. It would take that much for me to consider it not worth the flavor.

*- Discovering monsters is still fun to me even though I created most of DaJAngband's monster list..
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