Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 17, 2015, 10:07   #1
Wanderlust
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 76
Wanderlust is on a distinguished road
How useful are heroism, holy chant, and other "buff" items?

I find tons of these all over the dungeon and I really have no quantitative way to think about how useful they are in any given situation.

I've used them against low-level uniques and that has been quite good. But what about deeper in the dungeon?

I'd be interested in learning more about which "buff" items in general are useful in which situations.

It's not just potions and scrolls either. What about mushrooms? Most of them seem like double-edged swords, with a few notable exceptions.

I've been finding it useful to categorize the items I find into "buff", "attack", "escape", and "utility" items. The buff ones are starting to confuse me though, for real.
Wanderlust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2015, 10:37   #2
Carnivean
Knight
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 527
Carnivean is on a distinguished road
In general the buff spells tend to suffer diminishing returns against the player's powers. However by the end game they are basically free, especially from consumables.

Some of the mushrooms are definitely double-edged swords, but their side effects can be blocked with the right gear.
Carnivean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2015, 10:45   #3
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderlust View Post
I find tons of these all over the dungeon and I really have no quantitative way to think about how useful they are in any given situation.
Heroism and berserk rage give you temporary immunity to fear. To_hit improves a lot, especially for the classes that really suck at hitting anything.

Later in game those are not that important, but still better than nothing.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2015, 14:14   #4
Bowman
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 60
Bowman is on a distinguished road
As Timo mentioned, heroism and berserk are good for blocking fear if you don't have that resist. They also give you a little bit of healing, so I'll sometimes use them in the same way as !CLW. The to-hit bonus usually isn't too significant, so I wouldn't carry them around just for that, but if you're about to fight a big slab of HP and there happens to be a buff potion nearby, it doesn't hurt to get that little extra chance of hitting, particularly for non-warriors (since other classes tend to get fewer attacks along with having worse to-hit).

I don't tend to carry around !resist <element>, but again, if there's a situation where there's a appropriate resist potion nearby when I'm about to fight something, I'll suck it down.

Personally, I tend to squelch blessing/holy chant just about immediately, since I don't think they're worth the inventory weight, though I suppose rangers and maybe rogues could get some good use of them early on.

As far as buffing mushrooms, I usually carry clear mind and second sight until I get their effects from equipment, though red book casters can probably get away without second sight if you're diligent with casting reveal monsters. Terror could be useful, but I'd usually rather use ?phase/?teleport/?teleport level instead. I've never really used emergency, but if you have rChaos to block the hallucination, it could be nice in the right situations.
Bowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2015, 15:00   #5
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowman View Post
As far as buffing mushrooms
Mushroom of terror and potions of speed stack. If you need to get away from something fast enough that you don't care about terror-effect that is good to remember.

Also mushroom of clear mind removes hallucination from shroom of emergency so as combo that could be useful. Also having item with rChaos prevents hallucination from Emergency, so after you gain that those are suddenly very useful again, even worth carrying (200 HP healing is not bad, and temp rFire and rCold can be good especially with warrior roaming around Tarrasque-depths).

Usually though sacrificing inventory space for them is not worth the benefit, so use them if you find them at the appropriate time, otherwise not that useful.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2015, 15:38   #6
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 2,299
wobbly is on a distinguished road
The buffs can also be pretty useful for a mage if you've found a good shooter but haven't found the dungeon books. There's a fair section of the game where a mage will have better damage output from a shooter then spells, provided you can actually hit, which unbuffed they do quite poorly.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2015, 16:41   #7
Ingwe Ingweron
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,906
Ingwe Ingweron is on a distinguished road
[QUOTE=Timo Pietilš;107453]Mushroom of terror and potions of speed stack./QUOTE]

Is that right? I thought for !Speed that they were like food and did not stack. ?Bless/Chant/Prayer do. !Heroism/Berserk Strength do. But I don't think !Speed does.
__________________
“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Ingwe Ingweron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2015, 17:02   #8
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,002
fizzix is on a distinguished road
I think a more interesting question is whether these are things we should explore. For example, should a priest/paladin both be much weaker fighters, but benefit more from more powerful buffs? Then we could have more monsters debuff players and these monsters would be more dangerous and difficult for these classes to handle.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2015, 17:26   #9
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,023
Derakon is on a distinguished road
[QUOTE=Ingwe Ingweron;107458]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
Mushroom of terror and potions of speed stack./QUOTE]

Is that right? I thought for !Speed that they were like food and did not stack. ?Bless/Chant/Prayer do. !Heroism/Berserk Strength do. But I don't think !Speed does.
"Terror" is a separate effect from Haste, and thus gives a separate speed bonus, which stacks with Haste.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2015, 22:28   #10
Ingwe Ingweron
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,906
Ingwe Ingweron is on a distinguished road
[QUOTE=Derakon;107461]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post

"Terror" is a separate effect from Haste, and thus gives a separate speed bonus, which stacks with Haste.
Ah, I get it now. Speed potions don't stack with each other, but can be stacked with a mushroom of terror.
__________________
“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Ingwe Ingweron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using "Consumable" Items - How Stingy/Liberal? Medieval Vanilla 28 March 28, 2015 08:40
Items stuck in "recharging" mode tynan Vanilla 5 April 7, 2014 04:47
Counter on "A"ctivate items Raajaton Vanilla 9 April 5, 2013 08:05
"mixed blessing" items and speed question GreyWolf Vanilla 2 January 13, 2011 10:22
(Hopefully) useful code snippet modifies "]" command to highlight unidentified items Max Stats Vanilla 31 January 11, 2011 21:12


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.