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Old October 6, 2019, 07:26   #1
MWGE
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Necromancer late game

Really struggling around DL 75 and on.

With no real damage spells it's getting pretty hard against uniques, especially undead summoners.

The final spell book seems more or less useless but i'm wondering if i'm missing something?

Vampire strike is good for many earlier uniques but obviously useless against undead. Equally disenchant, though useful doesn't deal enough damage. Unleash Chaos seems to cause as many problems as it fixes and anihilation doesn't work..so, am I now basically a warrior?

I can live with that.

On another note, the light/dark thing is really hard with Randarts. The lack of situational knowledge (even with ESP) is hard yards. Trying to manage where one is standing is just a bit painful.

I'm for a harder game and enjoyed with HT Warrior...excellent game.

But at CL50 with a gnome Necromancer and decent resists and speed...i'm struggling a bit.

All hints happily accepted. I've won with Mages before (and Priests which are easy) but this is...a bit of a slog now.
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Old October 6, 2019, 07:39   #2
Sphara
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Equip the best weapon you got and fight in warg-form. Towards the end of my only necro win, I melee'd considerably more than cast attack spells. Morgy was killed almost exclusively by warg-form melee (I had a very strong weapon though).
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Old October 7, 2019, 16:04   #3
MWGE
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Got the hang of it a bit more now.
Annihilation and Unleash Chaos are good against uniques if I can disenchant them and stop them summoning.
It takes a while and a lot of recharging Mana via resting (running away a bit) but it works. I could use power sacrifice i suppose and the vampire some nearby monsters but i don't tend to as it seems overly complex.

Only Morgy to go...so we shall see how that works out.

I like the Necromancer. I would say that the play style is pleasingly different from other spell casters and the options wider.

On the negatives, i don't think spell book e is very useful at all. I haven't used it once IIRC.

The light thing...i can't imagine playing in the dark. Simply because there seems to be a lot of very dangerous creatures (storm of unmagic) that one cannot detect via telepathy and one could be caught out easily i think.

In any event...as a character class the implementation is generally pleasing. I would like a randart addition such as "unlight" in the light sources but there are so many light emitters that it might not be any use.

Last edited by MWGE; October 8, 2019 at 00:56.
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Old October 8, 2019, 01:07   #4
MWGE
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Thoughts after winning.

Class works well in many ways;

Vampire and Draining options interesting and differentiate the class.

Attack spell range good, perhaps apart from the late early game when there seems to be a "hole" in which nether bolt is too weak and the others too expensive.

Defense spells non-existent and so be it, I think the drains and vampires make up for that.

Utility spells; the mapping a moving options are interesting. Having the mid point between teleport and phase door made it quite useful but also gave drawbacks, and i think that's just fine. The mapping spell in late game is excellent.

Spell book e and some suggestions...

I didn't use it. In fact i left it behind in the late game. I do think some people might use Power Sacrifice so i'd leave it in.

What i might suggest is some kind of summoning...after all, Necromancer? Something tactically useful but not straying into the "pets" realm. I can see space filling, non-mobile, skeletons being good in early game. They could attack on the players side but not move. In later game move up to zombies or similar. The space filling aspect would be useful if they didn't block player LOS or targeting...This might be open to abuse so i wouldn't want it to develop into a very powerful "you surround Morgoth with a sea of Elder Vampires" kind of thing. A weak bunch of skeletons though...i can see that.

Control spell...tried it once for novelty. I think leave it in though as others might use it.

Another option might be something like "sense the dead" as a low level spell that not only detects undead but also gives a time limited ESP analogue for undead so one can track them and even "See" through their eyes.

Another potential might be "raise dead" where one might turn an Elder Vampire rather rudely into a Rogue

Anyway....Enjoyed it so certainly not complaining. A lot of hard work went into this and I say a wholehearted thank you.
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Old October 8, 2019, 01:29   #5
DrWho42
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congratulations on winning!
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avatar by chuckdrawsthings. thanks chuck!

bootleg fishcenterlive

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Old June 23, 2022, 15:15   #6
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Hey, want to resurrect this thread.

I am back to Andgand after serveral years of hiatus, and I must say I enjoy the new version! At CL42 now with Necromancer Elf, and the class has been a lot of fun so far.

However... at DL68 now and lacking damage. I am getting around with Heroic stealth and +20 speed just collecting objects from levels, but at some point I will need to fight.

Any tips???
Especially for Morgoth. I have seen someone dump using wand of annihilation as the primary damage dealer - that does not sound right.

Also - I someone mentioned warg form, but I don't understand how it works. How much damage will I do in this form? What's the mechanic? Go into form, few punches, then return back to normal, quaff potion, back to warg rinse and repeat?
Vampire form description is even more confusing. Does it suck life to Necromancer like Vampire Bite or does it not?
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Old June 23, 2022, 15:44   #7
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Warg Form gives you +2 Attacks and (+5, +5) combat bonus in melee, so it makes you comparable to a warrior. Leaving form in order to be able to drink, teleother, banish or whatever, doesn't cost a turn.

Vampire Form gives Hold Life, See Invis and +3 Stealth. Yes, you drain HP to heal but I have to say I didn't use this form much. For you, it might put you at legendary stealth.

Wands of annihilation are very good against Morgoth, especially if you have several of them and lots of ways to recharge.
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Old June 23, 2022, 16:06   #8
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Thanks Sphara!
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Old June 26, 2022, 12:29   #9
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Vampire form life leech is actually pretty good if you are fighting a bunch of living enemies who would otherwise wear you down. Killing them slower vs werewolf using vampire form can let you just smash them to death one by one in LoS safety.

It is a quirky class to get the hang off indeed. But fun in its own way.
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Old July 13, 2022, 22:15   #10
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The thought of an necromancer raising an army of undead gave me an idea. It could create a group around you of radius X (increases with level, perhaps) of some undead things. Or maybe a cone so it can be directed. They don't actually have to move, but they would be hostile to everything - yourself included. I am thinking something similar to a pile of stones that fights back. The level of these things would be high enough to present a decent challenge for an enemy to overcome in order to get to you, but low enough that you yourself can use Crush or something to clear the field for yourself.

I am sure this idea can be improved on. The main idea is to make a necromancer do necro stuff and to use the raised undead to basically help yourself in a tight spot while reducing the abuse factor. Also, I think a static monster that fights other monsters might be easier to fit into the existing game mechanics.
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