Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 2, 2009, 21:59   #1
andrewdoull
Unangband maintainer
 
andrewdoull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 43
Posts: 872
andrewdoull is on a distinguished road
Feature request for the much maligned short bow

Hi,

I've seen comments in a number of threads that a short bow is pretty much a throwaway item.

I would like to request that it be modified so that it gets +1 shots.

This means a short bow (or recurved bow, if you want to change the name at the same time) does more damage per turn than a long bow, but uses up ammunition far faster.

Thoughts?
__________________
The Roflwtfzomgbbq Quylthulg summons L33t Paladins -more-
In UnAngband, the level dives you.
ASCII Dreams: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com
Unangband: http://unangband.blogspot.com
andrewdoull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2009, 22:18   #2
Donald Jonker
Knight
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 593
Donald Jonker is on a distinguished road
Seconded, with the reservation that it may unbalance things quite a bit. I don't know off-hand the range of the shortbow, but this may be adjusted as a balancing factor.

Slings also ought to be considered... then again maybe they should remain a "starter's" shooter." Another method would be to make their ammo very potent, but multiplier very low, so they become less and less effective the further you progress.

My first thought had been to de-trivialize these two by way of class-aptitudes, but your approach seems more elegant and better suited for Vanilla.
__________________
Bands, / Those funny little plans / That never work quite right.
-Mercury Rev
Donald Jonker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2, 2009, 23:43   #3
Atarlost
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 441
Atarlost is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Jonker View Post
Seconded, with the reservation that it may unbalance things quite a bit. I don't know off-hand the range of the shortbow, but this may be adjusted as a balancing factor.

Slings also ought to be considered... then again maybe they should remain a "starter's" shooter." Another method would be to make their ammo very potent, but multiplier very low, so they become less and less effective the further you progress.

My first thought had been to de-trivialize these two by way of class-aptitudes, but your approach seems more elegant and better suited for Vanilla.
I'm not sure about longbows at all. I'm not entirely convinced they are used in Middle Earth.

Wood elves would tend to use short or composite bows because longbows are difficult to use when sitting in a tree. The Numenoreans are known to use "steelbows" and the only steel bows I know of are arbalests which would be heavy crossbows. If the Rohirrim use bows, and I don't recall if they do or not, they would use short or composite bows because longbows cannot be used from horseback. Hobbits are known to use bows, but are too short to use longbows. The Noldor are presumed to use composite bows because of a reference to horse archers in relation to the first Glaurung sighting. No definate longbows.

Replacing longbows with composite bows allows you to reasonably STR limit them. Longbows have similar draw weight to shortbows, but composite bows can have much higher draw weights. Short bows and slings would then be the low strength ranged niche weapon, crossbows simply being outright heavy.
__________________
One Ring to rule them all. One Ring to bind them.
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness interrupt the movie.
Atarlost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2009, 00:28   #4
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,577
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
I'm not sure that absence of evidence is evidence of absence here.

Middle Earth is based on medieval Europe and England in particular. Longbows have been in use for hunting in Britain since at least 2000BCE, and in massed warfare since the 12th century. (see wikipedia article) The only significant use of composite bows in medieval Europe were by enemy cavalry from The East. (Saracen, Mongols, etc.)

Further, I'm of the impression that Bard and Legolas used longbows, though the latter may just be Peter Jackson's influence.
Pete Mack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2009, 00:41   #5
Daniel Fishman
Adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 131
Daniel Fishman is on a distinguished road
I don't have a copy of the text with me, but Wikipedia claims Legolas was given a new longbow in Lothlorien (which could be easily verified by someone who does have the text).
Daniel Fishman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2009, 00:53   #6
Faust
Adept
 
Faust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Faust is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farewll to Lorien
To Legolas she gave a bow such as the Galadhrim used, longer and stouter than the bows of Mirkwood, strung with a string of elf-hair.
Sounds like a longbow but Tolkien doesn't name it a longbow directly.
Faust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2009, 01:12   #7
Atarlost
Swordsman
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 441
Atarlost is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust View Post
Sounds like a longbow but Tolkien doesn't name it a longbow directly.
I don't think the Galadrim can reasonably be using longbows. They need a bow that can be fired from a treetop, which a longbow isn't. Tolkein was a linguist, not an archer, and can be expected to make mistakes, but the need of an archer hiding in a tree to not tangle his bow in the branches isn't something you can write around.
__________________
One Ring to rule them all. One Ring to bind them.
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness interrupt the movie.
Atarlost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2009, 01:56   #8
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
Missile attacks are unbalanced. If you make them noticeably different, then whichever one is best becomes a necessary choice to anyone playing strategically. If you change it so that shortbows are better, then everyone will want shortbows.

If you want to stop everyone from using longbows, you need to give them attacks that are better than a longbow, as light and replenishable as arrows, and that improve in damage as fast as a longbow when you read ?+dam on them. E.g., you could start by giving everyone 3 melee attacks with a light weapon. You might get most of the way there by linearizing the stat tables. That's the sort of change that would be needed. That's still not enough, since phase and shoot is so effective, but at least it would be in the ballpark.

Most items are pointless without a suitable ego. When's the last time you cared about a good beaked axe? Shortbows are just one more example. An early shortbow with +5 damage can be interesting, but it better be really early.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2009, 03:50   #9
zaimoni
Knight
 
zaimoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 590
zaimoni is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atarlost View Post
I'm not sure about longbows at all. I'm not entirely convinced they are used in Middle Earth.

Wood elves would tend to use short or composite bows because longbows are difficult to use when sitting in a tree. ....
As composite bows are much higher-tech than longbows, I would think the Elves would be the only race capable of maintaining them.
zaimoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3, 2009, 04:14   #10
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,577
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaimoni View Post
As composite bows are much higher-tech than longbows, I would think the Elves would be the only race capable of maintaining them.
Composite bows have been around for a long, long time--at least 2000 years. The Mongols didn't have a lot of technology, but they did have bows.
Pete Mack is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Feature Request: Waking up others buzzkill Vanilla 0 January 11, 2009 23:22
Feature request Antoine Vanilla 5 January 8, 2009 03:27
Feature Request - Traits Conker Vanilla 9 June 17, 2008 01:26
[Feature Request] A whole horde of them! JamesDoyle Vanilla 25 March 21, 2008 18:06
Feature Request Zero Vanilla 1 February 5, 2008 17:21


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.