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Old May 15, 2010, 17:09   #1
Estie
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Randart luck :)

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Ive never been a fan of cloning; Ive done it at times, but for my winners the turning point was a checkerboard pit more often than not.
In this game however I arrived at level 98 without having seen any greater vault and accordingly, pretty mediocre equipment. So when I detected a clone wand a great ice wyrm nearby, I decided to give it a go. And joy, the wyrm and his clones dropped me both the most awesome randart melee weapon I have ever seen and a PDSM to go with it. Also some randart jewelry, but that turned out less than spectacular.
Happily I turned quality squelch to "only artifacts" for all melee weapons and sold off the MoD of Slay Evil I had stored at home for possible Morgoth use

Time to kill the major uniques; but when I saw the effect my mace had on them, I felt I could skip that part. Acid ring for Sauron, *splat*. Downstairs, Mr. Ugly appearing on radar, but then I spotted another cloning wand, and right in the same room a great storm wyrm. Hmmm. So Mr. Ugly got temporarily *destructed* in a remote corner and I busied myself again with wyrm clones. Among the junk was nothing of note except another randart ring - but this one was juicy.

When I recalled down next time, I appeared right next to Him. Phase door, buff up was followed by my shortest Morgoth fight ever.

So now Im feeling like getting a brandy. A toast to the RNG, may he be with you!

Last edited by Estie; May 15, 2010 at 17:55.
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Old May 15, 2010, 17:24   #2
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10 blows per round! Violent!
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Old May 15, 2010, 18:12   #3
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Absolutely insane combination. Grond looks like a toy compared to this.
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Old May 15, 2010, 18:16   #4
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1760 damage/turn vs evil... Poor M -- he didn't stand a chance.
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Old May 15, 2010, 19:12   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ycombinator View Post
Absolutely insane combination. Grond looks like a toy compared to this.
You're not kidding. 9d8, +2 blows, all three *slays* and evil, and regen / susCon / ImmElec / rChaos to boot. The ring would be good enough without the 42% increase in damage output ... definitely time to tone these down!
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Old May 15, 2010, 21:01   #6
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Quote:
You're not kidding. 9d8, +2 blows, all three *slays* and evil, and regen / susCon / ImmElec / rChaos to boot. The ring would be good enough without the 42% increase in damage output ... definitely time to tone these down!
Dont be too quick with that.

I have been playing with randarts for ages now. The main reason for me is that I dislike the predictability with the standard set: Cambeleg solves your glove slot, Thorin shield slot, "now I need to look out for Caspanion" and so on. Instead, I like the variety coming with the randart option: its a bit like playing standart Angband before you know all the artifacts by heart.

However, variety means there are going to be spikes for the quality of the set, both upwards and down. A few random combinations will turn out more powerful than the standart set, others weaker if the average randart game plays about the same as the standart game.

I have taken a look at the artifact dump of the game I played, and if Im not mistaken, my weapon is Deathwreaker and the ring Vilya.

The ring is listed right above The One:

The Ring 'Esgalad' (+14,+13) *snip* Min Level 88, Max Level 127, Generation chance 1, 0.2 lbs

The weapon is the top entry in "Hafted":

The Mace of Disruption of Ostolwar (9d8) (+13,+10) [+5] *snip* Min Level 96, Max Level 127, Generation chance 5, 36.0 lbs


What I would do is to generate a few randart sets and compare these two entries in power to the standarts Deathwreaker and Vilya. "Assume a player is lucky enough to find these two, will he be weaker, stronger or about the same as the standart player ?"

In my set, both Ostolwar and Esgalad are better than their respective counterparts, but from what I have seen sofar in other artifacts, I suspect thats not true for the average set.
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Old May 16, 2010, 07:35   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
I have taken a look at the artifact dump of the game I played, and if Im not mistaken, my weapon is Deathwreaker and the ring Vilya.
It's rather more likely that the weapon is Bladeturner - it's a *lot* more powerful than Deathwreaker. The ring could well be Vilya.
Quote:
What I would do is to generate a few randart sets and compare these two entries in power to the standarts Deathwreaker and Vilya. "Assume a player is lucky enough to find these two, will he be weaker, stronger or about the same as the standart player ?"

In my set, both Ostolwar and Esgalad are better than their respective counterparts, but from what I have seen sofar in other artifacts, I suspect thats not true for the average set.
Please rest assured that I have generated a fair few (hundred) artifact sets and looked for exactly this issue. There aren't that many people playing 3.1.2 with randarts, and even if we assume that the only posts are about the eyebrow-raising ones, there have still been quite a few of those in the short period since 3.1.2 was released. It's true that we are only talking about perhaps one in ten games, but that's still too often for comfort.

Note that I'm not saying that randarts like these should never exist, simply that they should be a lot rarer.
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Old May 16, 2010, 13:46   #8
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I agree with whoever said things like +shots and +might should never be on anything other than a bow. Same for +blows being on anything other than a melee weapon. +3 attacks on a ring is silly and shouldn't be possible.
Nothing wrong with the weapon 'Ostolwar' though. No change is needed for that.
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Old May 16, 2010, 15:27   #9
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Amazing weapon, especially in conjunction with that crazy ring, but I'm laughing my ass off at its activation effect. The ring's is pretty hillarious too, you could've sat there and made your weapon even stronger with enough patience!
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Old May 16, 2010, 20:27   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will_asher View Post
I agree with whoever said things like +shots and +might should never be on anything other than a bow. Same for +blows being on anything other than a melee weapon. +3 attacks on a ring is silly and shouldn't be possible.
Nothing wrong with the weapon 'Ostolwar' though. No change is needed for that.
The problem is how items are evaluated. IMO the proper way to evaulate +1 attacks is to generate 100 sets of artifacts and look for the best weapon in each of them. Take an average over the 100 sets as follows. Assume a 4-blow character using it with total to_dam of +100. So it should have the same value as a +dam boost of (best weapon + 100)/4. Similarly, for +1 shots, generate 100 sets of randarts and find the best launchers. Assume you are using seeker ammo of holy might with dam+25 on the ammo. Calculate the damage shooting that ammo, divide by 4 to convert to a melee +dam bonus and then multiply by 3 because it is so much safer to shoot than to melee.

[edit] That +100 is probably excessive. I forgot that the weapon's bonus is included. +60 seems more reasonable.

That will get you started, but there are lots of things that are overvalued that need to be toned down. I'm always selling artifacts that seem like junk for far more than things that I consider to be valuable. It is not enough not to undervalue the powerful flags. You also need not to overestimate that weak flags.

Last edited by PowerDiver; May 17, 2010 at 03:36.
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