[Norseband] I'm back--but where to go from here?

[ISNorden]

Hmmm, that variant would have a steep learning curve and more YASD posts than most.. <grin> (I have mastered one Norse-themed roguelike, Ragnarok, whose main objective is to recover the gods' weapons for the final battle; the Big Bad Bosses aren't defeatable by the player, but he still has to get close enough to return the right item to each owner. The Ragnarok game has very little magic, forcing the player to depend on items for survival; it's even got a few lethal bugs, sometimes placing a new character on top of a fire trap in town and cremating him before he can act! )

Having lived through a loosely similar game, I agree that magic would not be as powerful or as common in a very strict Nordic setting. However, the Norseband I had in mind is a compromise between "theme fidelity" and "gameplay style". It will involve more than a simple tweaking of names, flavors and flags; yet a lot of the elements that roguelike players expect will still exist. Big Bad Bosses to defeat, magical or high-tech gear to help players survive, and a broad selection of abilities on both sides of the battlefield: those are a must in a typical *band regardless of the theme. The powerful stuff will still be rare, but suicide missions (as in the Ragnarok game) will be an exception to the rule.

[LostTemplar]

Well, difficulty will be adjusted, I have a plan:
First make a game with relatively weak chracter with very meaningfull equipment choices, so make it impossible to have every bonus(mostly resist) at the same time, so you have to choose only few and cover others with temporary buffs or live without them.(and no permanent speed/ststs except by shapeshift (maybe +2 here)) (planning 3 (human) races here: just normal(with magical affinity), werewolf and werebear (with shapeshifts))
Have original FAangband monster difficulty, so high level ones are impossible.
Play it.
Figure out, what monsters I can defeat, and set up winning quest, so it is about toughest monster ever defeated, or maybe made few optional quests.


As for magic, I just want no spellcasting, no reading and reciting books in combat, my current plan is to move all magic into activations of weapons and amulets (with charges, that repelnish over time), so at any given time player can only use two "spells" (item only recharge while worn, and its 'charges', go away when taken off, so no swaps in combat).
Magic items will be found randomly (egos), dropped by set unique monsters (artifacts) or created by 'inscribe with runes' 'm' command, which will offer selection of several(weak) activations based on relations with gods, CHA and WIS score.


Another evil plan is to make CHA actually most usefull stat, since it will define, how often gods help you, and gods can save you in any situation.

[ghengiz]

Originally Posted by LostTemplar

(and no permanent speed/ststs except by shapeshift (maybe +2 here))

Originally Posted by LostTemplar

Have original FAangband monster difficulty, so high level ones are impossible.

Wait a minute...it's okay to have almost impossible high level monster, but no permanent speed? something looks wrong here...

Originally Posted by LostTemplar

As for magic, I just want no spellcasting, no reading and reciting books in combat, my current plan is to move all magic into activations of weapons and amulets (with charges, that repelnish over time), so at any given time player can only use two "spells" (item only recharge while worn, and its 'charges', go away when taken off, so no swaps in combat).

that sounds interesting
[edit:]how do you plan to implement the recharge speed? constant, or depending on (max number of charges - actual charges)?

Originally Posted by LostTemplar

Another evil plan is to make CHA actually most usefull stat, since it will define, how often gods help you, and gods can save you in any situation.

To pray to be saved sounds a bit nethack-ish to me
I know you can not control in game when gods will help you, in the above comment of course I mean 'you the player' will pray

[LostTemplar]

Wait a minute...it's okay to have almost impossible high level monster, but no permanent speed? something looks wrong here...

Why "allmost" and what wrong ? Maybe +2 permanent speed will be available, **HUGE** bonus really 20% better at all actions. I am planning seemingly infinite monster list, so no matter what you can kill there is allways stronger monster, probably 300 possible, 200 impossible and 100 possible with huge luck. So no matter how good you are, somebody else can do better (kill stronger monster).

[Derakon]

Given how important speed is in current Angband, you're going to have a heck of a time keeping the game balanced if you keep the current monster list (including monsters that move three or four times faster than normal speed) and take away the player's speed bonuses.

Or do you consider FAAngband to be too easy?

[LostTemplar]

I was not expecting somebody here to understand, but in case there is still a chance *NOT EVERY MONSTER IS MEANT TO EVER BE DEFEATED BY PLAYER*, but there will be doable winnig quest still, maybe several alternative quests.

And I need my own thread for my varinat.

[getter77]

Something Norse'ish flavoured would make for a cool variant indeed, be it somewhere Ragnarock'ish - Unreal World'ish----though if I had to dream big it'd be for something with the sense of wonder of a King of Dragon Pass/Glorantha-band....thing.

Would definitely fit in with the unbeatable foes angle due to lore and such at the least.

[ghengiz]

Originally Posted by LostTemplar

I was not expecting somebody here to understand, but in case there is still a chance *NOT EVERY MONSTER IS MEANT TO EVER BE DEFEATED BY PLAYER*, but there will be doable winnig quest still, maybe several alternative quests.
.

Well, if you did not expect somebody here to understand, why did you post in first instance? someone could even take offence on the wording of your message...not that I did, but someone could.

Originally Posted by LostTemplar

Why "allmost" and what wrong ? Maybe +2 permanent speed will be available, **HUGE** bonus really 20% better at all actions. I am planning seemingly infinite monster list, so no matter what you can kill there is allways stronger monster, probably 300 possible, 200 impossible and 100 possible with huge luck. So no matter how good you are, somebody else can do better (kill stronger monster).

On the "what's wrong" issue, I just quote Derakon, who explain the speed part of it very well:

Originally Posted by Derakon

Given how important speed is in current Angband, you're going to have a heck of a time keeping the game balanced if you keep the current monster list (including monsters that move three or four times faster than normal speed) and take away the player's speed bonuses.

and I add that with the proportions you did indicate, about half of the monster a character will meet will be unwinnable...a bit too much, maybe...I have the impression that that will lead to *a lot* of insta-deaths. sure, you can always try and escape, but still...

[dzhang]

It's not too hard to balance having speed capped at +0 or +2. Just triple or quadruple the HP of @, and then have healing be scaled as a percentage of HP. The game becomes pretty different, as in you'll be taking the quadruple moves and eating up to 1500 points of damage per round from 3 Chaos Breathes, but I think it's doable.

[Therem Harth]

I really like that idea actually. The usual Angband method of having endgame characters with Matrixesque bullet-dodging reaction time is fun, but it gets kind of silly.