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Old October 26, 2020, 22:00   #1
DavidMedley
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Roguelike Dungeons and Dragons

Are there any roguelikes based on the Open Game License versions of Dungeons and Dragons? If not, why not?
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Old October 26, 2020, 23:38   #2
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Technically Rogue had D&D roots, so all roguelikes carry that influence. Things like the D&D Rust Monster becoming an Aquator. The stat system being 3-18 as a base. (Now instead of 3d6, they roll 1d3+1d4+1d5+1d6 for 4-18) The same six stats, D&D going from 3-18/100 while roguelike go from 4-18/210 (18/***)

True, any traces of D&D have long since been obscured. Projects like ToME (Troubles of Middle Earth) being forced to rename as Tales of Maj'Eyal, to keep the Tolkein estate happy. I imaging TSR/WotC/Hasbro would be all over anything they saw as a blatant infringement.

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Old October 26, 2020, 23:59   #3
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Originally Posted by CyclopsSlayer View Post
Projects like ToME (Troubles of Middle Earth) being forced to rename as Tales of Maj'Eyal, to keep the Tolkein estate happy.
Just doing my usual correcting of misconceptions about the Tolkien Estate.

PernAngband was renamed to Troubles of Middle Earth because of its maintainer, DarkGod, getting a letter from Anne McCaffrey's people. ToME was untroubled by the Tolkien Estate, as Angband and Moria have been (despite longer history and higher profile than the original ToME). See Wikipedia to see what legal processes the Tolkien Estate have been involved in, and note the distinction between them and Middle Earth Enterprises.

I don't know for sure why DarkGod chose to re-name, re-code and re-theme ToME; possibly he was concerned about future legal action if he started selling the game on Steam, or possibly it was to do with the Angband licence.
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Old October 27, 2020, 01:49   #4
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I don't know for sure why DarkGod chose to re-name, re-code and re-theme ToME; possibly he was concerned about future legal action if he started selling the game on Steam, or possibly it was to do with the Angband licence.
Based on some passing comments on his dev blog at the ten year anniversary(not sure if it was ten, it was some big milestone though) of starting work on TOME4, there 2 reasons:

1.Lingering "trauma" (probably too strong a word, but I can't think of a better one) from the Pernaband fiasco.

2. A desire to create his own world without any of the baggage from Middle Earth. Imagine trying to claim the Shire is the last remnants of a highly expansionist, militaristic, xenophobic empire!

As for the original question, there is Red Prison, which is based on 5th Ed: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1...he_Red_Prison/

The game is still *very* early (last I checked, none of the subclasses have been implemented yet).

As for why there aren't more roguelikes based on it, I'd hazard a guess that the big reason is that the rules are fundamentally built around parties, whereas roguelikes are built around single characters. So, things that are fine when you have a party giving backup (like, say the high variability of a d20) becomes less-than-ideal in a roguelike. I remember at one point the developer of Red Prison said they give you a couple of henchmen, because they can't make the math work out with a single character.

Also, I think it would be difficult to translate DnD 5e's action economy into a roguelike, at least if you used the standard energy-based system. How do you implement the following turn using an energy-based system, without a tedious "confirm your turn is over" keystroke?

1. Rage as a bonus action.
2. Move 15 ft.
3. Attack and kill a goblin with one swing.
4. Move 15 ft.
4. Attack and kill a second goblin with your second swing.

Last edited by archolewa; October 27, 2020 at 02:22.
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Old October 27, 2020, 02:21   #5
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Are there any roguelikes based on the Open Game License versions of Dungeons and Dragons? If not, why not?
In the Idle Chatter subforum there is a thread about a DND inspired rogulike named Zorbus: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=9470
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Old October 27, 2020, 03:54   #6
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Zorbus is actually really fun, I'd highly suggest it.
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Old October 27, 2020, 12:40   #7
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Incursion is another, even if frozen in time and a long shot to continue. Not unlike Veins of the Earth as a ToME 4 module, but the most infamous.
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Old October 27, 2020, 13:17   #8
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I don't know for sure why DarkGod chose to re-name, re-code and re-theme ToME; possibly he was concerned about future legal action if he started selling the game on Steam, or possibly it was to do with the Angband licence.
I've collected whole history of multiplayer *bands and there are plenty info about this story: https://tangaria.com/history/

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Considering topic - in multiplayer roguelike https://tangaria.com there are plenty of DnD-inspired stuff. While V actually coming away from DnD, I'm trying to preserve it in my variant along with cool new V features which PowerWyrm port into PWMA (my variant based at it).
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Old October 27, 2020, 14:08   #9
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Just doing my usual correcting of misconceptions about the Tolkien Estate.

PernAngband was renamed to Troubles of Middle Earth because of its maintainer, DarkGod, getting a letter from Anne McCaffrey's people. ToME was untroubled by the Tolkien Estate, as Angband and Moria have been (despite longer history and higher profile than the original ToME). See Wikipedia to see what legal processes the Tolkien Estate have been involved in, and note the distinction between them and Middle Earth Enterprises.

I don't know for sure why DarkGod chose to re-name, re-code and re-theme ToME; possibly he was concerned about future legal action if he started selling the game on Steam, or possibly it was to do with the Angband licence.
Ah, apologies! I apparently conflated and misremembered things. Thanks for the correction.
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Old October 27, 2020, 15:16   #10
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Thanks for the answers. I was looking for the D&D mechanics, not "spiritual" descendants, but those comments add to the discussion as well. I tried Red Prison back in January and did not have a good experience. But I see it's been updated and I'll try again.
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