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Old May 22, 2013, 11:20   #1
eMeM
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Few ideas on.. teleportation

Phase Door
It's one of the best spells in the game. I think current vault room behaviour of PD makes it too strong. I abuse it a lot, maybe game should force me to use other teleports in danger? Then I would have to face monsters I teleported away with teleport other spell.

Teleportation & Teleport Level
I would mix Teleport Level and Teleportation to one spell with random Teleport Level effect 25%-50% of times. You would have to consider every time you use it on level with a lot of cool items.

Teleport Other
Teleport Other as a bolt is OK but I think it should be higher level, much more mana spell, deeper level wand, deeper level rod. Today it's too easy to teleport everything in our LOS.
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Old May 22, 2013, 17:00   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eMeM View Post
Phase Door
It's one of the best spells in the game. I think current vault room behaviour of PD makes it too strong. I abuse it a lot, maybe game should force me to use other teleports in danger? Then I would have to face monsters I teleported away with teleport other spell.

Teleportation & Teleport Level
I would mix Teleport Level and Teleportation to one spell with random Teleport Level effect 25%-50% of times. You would have to consider every time you use it on level with a lot of cool items.

Teleport Other
Teleport Other as a bolt is OK but I think it should be higher level, much more mana spell, deeper level wand, deeper level rod. Today it's too easy to teleport everything in our LOS.
I might be able to get behind a removal of the "no teleporting to icky square" condition if you start on an icky square, that would remove phase door abuse inside a vault. But if so, I'd also like to remove "teleport-to" inside a vault as well.

Teleportation is already somewhat dangerous. Many depths occur after teleporting to a place already injured and landing next to something that kills you. Replacing it with a random chance of teleporting level seems like overkill.

Teleport Other *is* too powerful. But, 40 level OoD vault monsters are also too powerful. Most mid-game uniques are too powerful to handle at depth. Many monsters (undead beholders etc.) are far too annoying to deal with. Summoning is (still) too powerful. The player needs some powerful weapon to deal with these issues. (by the way, unless I'm a mage, it's usually not until late in the game that I find -TO, but maybe I'm unlucky)
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Old May 22, 2013, 17:15   #3
Philip
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I think that teleport level can be moved deeper, or perhaps the wand just made rarer, simply because monsters rarely get out of vaults, mid-game uniques are there to challenge you, make you run away, or reward you for being a mage. By the stats posted by eMeM in the other thread, less than one monster on dlvl 50 (0.5% of 155 monsters) is OOD on an average level.
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Old May 22, 2013, 17:24   #4
Derakon
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Originally Posted by Philip View Post
I think that teleport level can be moved deeper, or perhaps the wand just made rarer, simply because monsters rarely get out of vaults, mid-game uniques are there to challenge you, make you run away, or reward you for being a mage. By the stats posted by eMeM in the other thread, less than one monster on dlvl 50 (0.5% of 155 monsters) is OOD on an average level.
But enemies that are in-depth are still worthy targets of teleport-away. Consider Kavlax as a notable example; there are plenty of others. They shouldn't be moved deeper -- showing up early makes the dungeon more dangerous even if only by making Teleport riskier -- but they're almost never going to be fought as soon as they show up.

I generally agree with fizzix; if you want to restrict access to teleport-away, then you also have to make monsters much "safer" to fight, which means (among other things) vastly restricting what can show up when. Otherwise greater vaults would never be safe to enter before, oh, 4000', since there's going to be nasty out-of-depth monsters in them and the player won't have the power needed to deal with them. Is that really an improvement over the status quo?

I do think it'd be fine to make Phase Door be able to teleport you within the vault once you've cracked it though (or just if you're already standing on a vault tile). Having it always take you to just outside the vault is pretty abusable.
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Old May 22, 2013, 20:51   #5
Pete Mack
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I dunno. Phase Door is currently the only way to rest while cracking a connected vault. Without it, I would probably stick to disconnected vaults (like GCD), and any vault that allows monsters to come to you (like Diagonal.)
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Old May 22, 2013, 22:11   #6
Derakon
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How do you mean, "only way to rest"? I mean, in the worst case you can just kite monsters away from the vault a few at a time to fight them without getting overwhelmed. I do that regularly with pits, for that matter.
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Old May 22, 2013, 22:20   #7
Pete Mack
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
How do you mean, "only way to rest"? I mean, in the worst case you can just kite monsters away from the vault a few at a time to fight them without getting overwhelmed. I do that regularly with pits, for that matter.
This isn't easy to do in more elaborate configurations (like Reward is Worth it.)
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Old May 23, 2013, 11:33   #8
eMeM
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Otherwise greater vaults would never be safe to enter before, oh, 4000', since there's going to be nasty out-of-depth monsters in them and the player won't have the power needed to deal with them.
What's wrong with vaults not being safe? I think game is lacking situations when you can say: OK, I'm not going there, I will certainly die. Or I might die there but I will try anyway.

In recent years Angband has become more friendly for fast diving players. Monster are more balanced throughout dungeon (no more "forced" stat gain), it's hard to run out of consumables when fast diving, You are almost guaranteed to get all books without repeating levels. Result? Less challenge for fast diving players and no challenge for slow divers. Some of fast divers can win almost every time.

We have too many option which can save player from death even in worst conditions:
!*Healing* & !Life - unless you are fighting too many monsters at same time
Teleport Level, *Destruction* - unless blinded, confused, amnesiac
Mass Banishment - unless very low on HP and fighting uniques
Teleport Other - if one monster is source of danger (only mages and priests have 0% failure)

and

Teleportation - 99% safe without healing before teleportation. With healing it's even more secure. That's why I think teleportation is also too strong.

On a side note we have too many !Speed, !Restore Mana in the dungeon.

Last edited by eMeM; May 23, 2013 at 11:41.
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Old May 23, 2013, 11:47   #9
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eMeM View Post
Teleportation - 99% safe without healing before teleportation. With healing it's even more secure. That's why I think teleportation is also too strong.
I think you overestimate teleportation safety there. If you are already badly damaged teleport from frying pan into the fire is more like 15%-20% chance. Also without stunning protection deep in dungeon every single teleport is instant death risk even with full heath (plasma/impact/gravity hounds).
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Old May 23, 2013, 12:11   #10
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On a side note we have too many !Speed, !Restore Mana in the dungeon.
By what standards too many ? My ironman characters had to be very careful to preserve those. If you play a mode where you can farm forever, then whats the point of reducing the frequency ? It just takes longer to get the desired amount.

I could see a point in the early game, where each potion of speed basically means a dead early unique. However, while I dont usually feel a lack of !speed (!mana doesnt drop yet), the variance is very high; in some games I have speed boosts to spare, in others I barely see any if at all.

It depends on how fast you proceed I guess; if you stay on shallow levels for a long time, youre bound to eventually find many speed potions (there arent that many potion types that can spawn, so the ratio of speed is high).
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