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Old March 3, 2020, 21:33   #11
Grotug
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Subjectively, I'm slowly warming up to the annoyance that is Huorns and their ilk (black hearted huorn! watch out!) They have made the half troll weaker, which is a good thing I think as it was practically the only combo I played before the overhaul that is 4.2.0.

I think a simple solution would be to reduce wolf frequency in the early game by like 27 or 28%, and possibly all the change necessary. Personally, I don't want to see wolves changed much--or at all, actually. I like their annoying, slightly erratic behavior; I think it gives the game some nice flavor, if nothing else, and I think it's remarkable how much they actually feel like an intelligent pack of animals working together in a game that is turn based and ascii; pretty impressive. Thus it would be sad to lose that aspect of the game. That all said, I agree with wobbly that, subjectively, it would be sad to see white wolves go.

One thing I still lament (though at the time I would curse them up and down six ways from Sunday) is the nerf to Hellhounds. I miss fearing them. I miss the unique place they used to hold in the fearsome 40s and how they breathed terror into all adventurers who passed through the DL40s, how they lived up to their name so terribly well.

I guess I didn't realize wolves provided so much EXP. I generally ignore them if it's inconvenient to fight them.

@Anarchic Fox Wands of Stinking Cloud are a low damage area of effect wand that already exists. Wands of lightning bolts also good for wolf removal. I guess the problem is there are so many wolves that you would need a pretty fat stack of these to get rid of them all this way.
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Old March 3, 2020, 23:29   #12
wobbly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
Subjectively, I'm slowly warming up to the annoyance that is Huorns and their ilk (black hearted huorn! watch out!) They have made the half troll weaker, which is a good thing I think as it was practically the only combo I played before the overhaul that is 4.2.0.
A trick here I discovered by accident, the trees can't open or bash doors. Wont help with a hasty ent around, but for the rest a simple closed door will stop them. Hmm looking again the black hearted huorn can bash a door, but the early standard huorn can't.
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Old March 4, 2020, 00:34   #13
Anarchic Fox
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Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
@Anarchic Fox Wands of Stinking Cloud are a low damage area of effect wand that already exists. Wands of lightning bolts also good for wolf removal. I guess the problem is there are so many wolves that you would need a pretty fat stack of these to get rid of them all this way.
Yeah, I was suggesting greatly altering one of the existing wands to make it a wolf-specific item. I mean, you just admitted that the wand that's supposed to do this task, doesn't do this task unless there are lots of them in the stack.

So, I'm going to say... I genuinely enjoy the large packs of wolves. Every time I saw a pack I would charge straight into their midst and start killing them left and right until, at some point, their morale broke and the remainder started to flee. I don't recall ever being afraid of them, though admittedly I play slow. Encountering them provides the same pleasure I find in seeing packs of orcs in deep levels. Sure, they're hardly valuable, but at this point they're a blast to slaughter, and a much-needed stress reliever compared to the deadlier stuff.
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Old March 4, 2020, 02:18   #14
Pete Mack
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@AF--
They only give a lot of XP if CL is less than DL. The mobs are no longer big enough to give much XP beyond that. (There used to be 20 to 30; now there are 10 to 15.)
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Old March 4, 2020, 03:20   #15
luneya
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Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
@Anarchic Fox Wands of Stinking Cloud are a low damage area of effect wand that already exists. Wands of lightning bolts also good for wolf removal. I guess the problem is there are so many wolves that you would need a pretty fat stack of these to get rid of them all this way.
Why not buff stinking cloud, making it a genuinely effective remover of annoying stuff? Just about everything dangerous already is resistant or immune to poison, so even if we double or triple the stinking cloud damage, it'll still be a niche spell for removing canines and other such annoyances. And at least then it'll be worth using. Stinking cloud always had a reputation of being one of those spells that was never used unless someone picked up a wand, as its mana cost was high and its effectiveness low.
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Old March 4, 2020, 04:23   #16
wobbly
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Just about everything dangerous already is resistant or immune to poison
I don't think this is as true as people think. Most of the 'p's are not poison immune & stinking cloud is useful against the druadan mages. Its possible however that it needs a buff if the damage boost from device skill is going. Try necromancer or blackguard sometime if you want to see how many monsters don't actually resist poison.
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Old March 4, 2020, 08:40   #17
Anarchic Fox
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@AF--
They only give a lot of XP if CL is less than DL. The mobs are no longer big enough to give much XP beyond that. (There used to be 20 to 30; now there are 10 to 15.)
I didn't even care about the XP. I just went and killed them because I found it fun to kill them! The pack AI means that at some point their morale breaks, and I found that quite satisfying. In a stressful game like Angband, they provided stress relief, and concrete proof that yes, despite increasing difficulty as I descend, I am still becoming stronger. Of course, most people play much less impulsively than I do.
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Old March 4, 2020, 08:48   #18
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Yes there are too many wolf encounters in the early game. No need to do anything but increase the rarity of the packs.
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Old March 4, 2020, 08:59   #19
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That sounds like a good solution! Make the packs rarer, but keep each one hefty for silly people like me.
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Old March 4, 2020, 09:26   #20
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Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
Yes there are too many wolf encounters in the early game. No need to do anything but increase the rarity of the packs.
I'd be mollified with this change
If I dared to ask for more, I'd lower the dice of escort wargs too, and replace them with more orcs. Well, not orcs for the late game breathing wolves ofc.
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