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Old September 18, 2014, 00:20   #1
Gobbopathe
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Final Challenge (spoiler inside)

Hello

First post on Angband forum. I have to admit I am not fond of Angband (I succeeded in DCSS 15 runes or Brogue ascensions that I like much more), but discovered Sil a few weeks ago and totally love it.

But ! I reach eventually the final level, feeling the tension. First I tried to find the Iron Crown or maybe some hidden Silmarils, but could not find any. I was frustrated, and for the first time ever in a roguelike I tried to understand by save scumming (I am ashamed for the end of my life)... and still cannot understand how to get a silmaril. I made the assumption it was not necessary to fight Morgoth since it is written in the manual a no-fight victory was possible. But I start considering there is no other option, and if you confirm that point it would be a big deception.

I tried to fight Morgoth, and when inflicting him a 10+ damage I notice in the text description "the force of your blow knocks the Iron Crown off balance". That seems to confirm my fear : it seems I have to fight Morgoth, but did not build up my character to achieve such an heroic goal. I was wondering if a harder hit could do better, but even a multiple critical hit with 30+ damages does not change the text.

Well, you guessed what is my question : how the hell do I get a f.....g Silmaril ?

Thanks a lot, and once again thanks for developping Sil
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Old September 18, 2014, 01:14   #2
HallucinationMushroom
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I had the same problem at first, so I feel your pain! I also went looking for the crown, thinking it was tucked away in a chest or something.

There are two ways to get a silmaril.

Like you experienced: Knock the crown off of Morgoth's head. Stand over fallen crown. Use the 'k' key to attempt to pry silmaril from crown. This is not a guaranteed proposal, by the way. You need Angrist, or a sharp weapon, or sing the song of slaying, or simply a way to beat a decent protection score. Voila, you now hold a Silmaril.

Or, the other way: You can put Morgoth to sleep if you sing well enough and can overcome Morgoth's will save. I've never done this, but I know it to be possible. The crown slips off his head and like above, you must attempt to pry the silmaril from his head.
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Old September 18, 2014, 01:22   #3
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In short, not every build that can make it to the climax of the game can proceed further. This is unfortunate, but I'm not certain how it could realistically be changed without making the climax substantially easier (e.g. by stashing the Crown in a chest somewhere instead of putting it on Morgoth's head).
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Old September 18, 2014, 02:04   #4
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I think by 'fighting Morgoth' he meant 'with the intent to defeat him'. You really don't need to spend much time engaging Morgoth at all to get a single Sil. The bigger problem is actually cutting the Sil out of the crown if you don't understand the mechanics, which are relatively opaque if you're new to the game. (Especially if you're not watching combat rolls.)

If you can survive tangling things at 950', you can probably live long enough to wack the crown off his head and GTFO with a Sil.

Edit: If you like videos, this might help you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvSb...emjwbnVlcsKLiA

Edit2: If you're the kind of person who is twisted enough to do a 15-rune, you might enjoy poschengband.
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Old September 18, 2014, 04:41   #5
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I remember making it down to Morgoth once, not knowing what to do and reading the code in response (my build wasn't able to get a Sil). Here's what I learned:

First, to get the Iron Crown off of Morgoth, you need to do 10 or more damage to him two times. They don't need to be consecutive hits, but there's no way to speed it up by doing more damage or anything like that.

Second, to prise a silmaril out of the Iron Crown, stand over it and press 'k'. The first sil requires your weapon to beat a 15d4 protection roll by any amount, so if your best weapon doesn't consistently do 30+ damage and you don't have some form of sharpness, you're probably screwed. You can play around with dice roll distributions here: http://www.redblobgames.com/articles...age-rolls.html

If you want the second and third sils, they're 25d4 and 30d4 protection rolls to beat respectively, and those attempts have a chance to break your weapon instead of freeing a sil. If I'm reading the code correctly, weapon shattering this way can only happen once per game.

Also, I don't know 'p_ptr->cursed = TRUE' translates to after getting the third sil, but it doesn't sound very pleasant, judging by the "are you sure" prompt on the final attempt.

EDIT: Oh, and the Iron Crown itself weighs 400 lbs. I don't know if Sil stops you from lifting it outright, but if you could you'd end up extremely slow.

Last edited by tungtn; September 18, 2014 at 04:45. Reason: Iron Crown weight
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Old September 18, 2014, 13:18   #6
bagori nd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tungtn View Post
Also, I don't know 'p_ptr->cursed = TRUE' translates to after getting the third sil, but it doesn't sound very pleasant, judging by the "are you sure" prompt on the final attempt.
It means that whenever you make a skill roll, the game rolls twice and takes the lower of the two.
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EDIT: Oh, and the Iron Crown itself weighs 400 lbs. I don't know if Sil stops you from lifting it outright, but if you could you'd end up extremely slow.
Sil doesn't stop you from lifting it outright, but iirc you need Str 6 or so to do it. Ascending this way is more tedious but in some ways safer than doing so with the three-sil curse. (You can always drop the crown when you have to fight, for instance.)

Appropriately, but a little surprisingly for me, escaping with the crown counts as a three-sil win even if you don't bother taking them out. (Notably, this is technically a way for characters who can't pry out a silmaril to still win, though it's hard to imagine any such character who would nevertheless be capable of lugging the crown all the way up.)

Last edited by bagori nd; September 18, 2014 at 16:47.
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Old September 18, 2014, 19:45   #7
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In short, not every build that can make it to the climax of the game can proceed further.
It is important that the peaceful way does NOT require song. Staff of slumber works as well for stealth builds without song. (I still wonder whether anyone has tested the different horns on Morgoth - horn of force sounds promising.)

If you do a lot of damage with blunt weapons, lugging the crown out might be the only way to win w/ 3 Sils even after killing Morgoth.
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Old September 18, 2014, 19:56   #8
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It is important that the peaceful way does NOT require song. Staff of slumber works as well for stealth builds without song.
How much will do you need for that?
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Old September 18, 2014, 19:59   #9
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I need one of those for naptime.
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Old September 18, 2014, 20:30   #10
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How much will do you need for that?
Not exactly sure, but channeling is a huge buff and stealthy chars get will abilities cheap. I did it with will as low as 17 (+channeling +grace potion) used more than one charge though.
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