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Old February 11, 2021, 01:53   #1
davidk64
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Advice sought

Only had 6 or so attempts at this variant and inexperienced with other roguelikes.

See attached screenshot. I've explored the rest of the level and only have this room left which contains the downstairs. I'd happily skip it otherwise. Do I have any chance of clearing these guys? I assume I can't stealth past them and down the stairs?

The sparkling potion I tried with reduced health level but it doesn't help that. Any suggestions what it might be?

On depth 100 I came across the forge but decided to descend to 150 and come back once I had some better armor. But when I revisited 100 there was no forge. Is that correct - it only generates the first time you visit 100?

I've been using the Quarterstaff rather than Dagger of Cuivienen for the better damage. Is that plausible or are there reasons I should be using the dagger now?

I tried the Orcish Liquor earlier with tiles on and saw them all change red - was pretty speccy. From memory it gave a + to strength and constitution and various minuses. Is it intended to be used against orcs?

Really enjoying the variant!
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Old February 11, 2021, 21:52   #2
Quirk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidk64 View Post
See attached screenshot. I've explored the rest of the level and only have this room left which contains the downstairs. I'd happily skip it otherwise. Do I have any chance of clearing these guys? I assume I can't stealth past them and down the stairs?
You could stealth past them and down the stairs but you'd need to be really good at stealth - chances are with such a crowded room one of them will notice. Given the crowded room you also do not want to go in and fight them while surrounded.

You have lots of unspent experience which could help here and your armour is decent for 200'.

Your main paths:
a) wake them up and fight them a little way down the corridor
- you're strong enough to do this, especially if you put your experience into combat relevant places, but be wary you'll probably clear out a few orcs and then still have a room of archers and spider to contend with
- they will be shy about coming into the corridor if you're there and not injured
- if you kill Gorgol the archers may try to flee, and that would make things much easier
b) draw them out and lose them over the rest of the level
- from here you can either attempt to stealth past them or fight them, if you fight them try to pick places where you won't be surrounded, or the shaft of sunlight
- you may find the archers challenging at first so consider avoiding them, but your armour is decent so you shouldn't get shredded too fast
- the spider is the most dangerous foe apart from Gorgol and probably will stay put; don't fight it if there is anything else around, if you do manage to empty the room out and come back be prepared to dash to the stairs if the fight with it goes poorly
c) enter the room and go quickly for the stairs
- this could go very wrong if they block the stairs and surround you and you don't have many extra options if it does
- the best chance of scattering the orcs to get through is probably Song of Elbereth but this will require further Song investment in later levels to keep relevant so I would probably opt for this only if I were planning a build making use of it (the most classic one being the Elbereth archer)

Places you could spend your experience to help out here:
- beefing up Melee/Evasion with no abilities bought
- Evasion/Dodging/Sprinting - this would give you a strong tool to outrun them with either to plunge in and try to make the stairs or, safer, evade them across the rest of the level
- Stealth (maybe with Disguise, possibly Exchange Places) - this also works either as a direct approach or after drawing them out
- Song of Elbereth - scatter them and descend
- Song of Staunching - if you get into a battle of attrition after drawing them out, this tilts things in your favour, and it's good on combat builds

Hope this helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidk64 View Post
The sparkling potion I tried with reduced health level but it doesn't help that. Any suggestions what it might be?
Poison maybe? What was the message you got on drinking it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidk64 View Post
On depth 100 I came across the forge but decided to descend to 150 and come back once I had some better armor. But when I revisited 100 there was no forge. Is that correct - it only generates the first time you visit 100?
Yes, the forge only generates on your first visit to 100'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidk64 View Post
I've been using the Quarterstaff rather than Dagger of Cuivienen for the better damage. Is that plausible or are there reasons I should be using the dagger now?
Daggers and shortswords are primarily useful with stealthy Assassination builds. The quarterstaff gives you good damage with decent defence, and I'd also consider using the greatsword which is likely to kill things fastest if it hits - this is important against enemies like the sword spider in the top corner that you want dead as soon as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidk64 View Post
I tried the Orcish Liquor earlier with tiles on and saw them all change red - was pretty speccy. From memory it gave a + to strength and constitution and various minuses. Is it intended to be used against orcs?
I think you've mixed something up, the effect you're describing sounds like a Herb of Rage. Orcish Liquor heals you and applies a brief stunning effect (it refers to the same beverage given to Merry and Pippin in LOTR).

You can examine items you possess by typing 'x' and the key corresponding to their location in your inventory. Orcish Liquor's description reads:
"It banishes all fear, cures a quarter of your health and stuns you (for 2d4 turns)".
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Old February 14, 2021, 08:35   #3
davidk64
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Thanks a lot for the advice. Since I'm a beginner I decided to go with putting the experience into upgrading melee/archery/evasion and try to clear them. First I used up my arrows from the short corridor. Then I lured and started running. Gorgol came after me and I got him, the non archer orcs were no real problem. Then I had some difficulty dispatching the archers with no arrows and having to engage in melee after throwing my daggers and spears. They were careful not to follow me into corridors so I had to run through them getting hits in on the way past. Eventually I finished them off and went back for the spider who got me to 8 health and I wondered whether to try and run or stay and hope to finish him as he also was low on health. I decided to stay as I couldn't bear the thought of him killing me as I ran and fortunately I got him first. So eventually after some worrying moments they were all gone. Also I switched to the great sword at the start.

I got no message with the sparkling potion.

You're right it was the herb of rage.
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Old February 14, 2021, 22:45   #4
Infinitum
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It's either Antidote or Clarity (confusion, stun clear). None of them are particulary useful, so just try to be either stunned or poisoned before trying it next time. Maybe Healing if you were at full health, but those are rare at earlier depths. It's good practice to be slightly hurt when chugging to find that one asap.

Intelligent monsters generally won't follow you into corridors, but you can game the ai by closing doors on them. Archer AI can also be baited pretty easily; either trap them in L-shaped corridors or make sure to approach them from a cardinal direction when they have their back against a wall to prevent them from running.
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Old February 27, 2021, 20:36   #5
Pete Mack
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is it even safe to melee Wraiths at will 12 and no FA? (Final rest surely would have helped. )
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