Angband Forums What is up with level feelings?
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August 2, 2020, 04:48   #31
DavidMedley
Knight

Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 763
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Nick Code: `(square of monster level x levels out-of-depth)` for each monster, added together and divided by the dungeon level.
If I'm reading this right, danger feeling is proportional to depth. 51^2*1/50 is just over 51, while 26^2*1/25 is a little over 25, both for a monster 1 level OOD.

 August 2, 2020, 05:44 #32 wobbly Veteran   Join Date: May 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 2,375 Was the change that reduced odds of under depth monsters in 4.1? When was that added? The 7-? are usually pits in my experience.
August 2, 2020, 09:29   #33
Estie
Veteran

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,706
Quote:
 Originally Posted by DavidMedley If I'm reading this right, danger feeling is proportional to depth. 51^2*1/50 is just over 51, while 26^2*1/25 is a little over 25, both for a monster 1 level OOD.
It has always felt to me like that. So what about dividing the whole thing by dlvl and calibrating anew ?

August 2, 2020, 19:52   #34
bughunter
Rookie

Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 12
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Estie It has always felt to me like that. So what about dividing the whole thing by dlvl and calibrating anew ?
I've spent the morning cogitating over this formula, hoping to have an inspiration for a specific suggestion, but don't have much yet.

Some insights, though:

- This is the formula I've deduced from the thread:
Danger_level = SUM[(MLn^2 x (MLn - DL)) / DL, 1, N]
where
N is the number of monsters on the level
n is the index number for each monster
MLn is the nth monster's level
DL is the dungeon level
SUM is a function that sums the first argument evaluation starting with n = second argument and continuing through n = third argument.

- The expression also evaluates to (MLn^3/DL - ML), meaning that the result is going to be proportional to the cube of the monster level.

- For low levels, there are going to be few monsters below their depth, so that (MLn - DL) will almost always be positive.

- At deeper levels, a lot of monsters will appear where (MLn - DL) is negative.

- This negative term will offset the effect of DL on the resulting value.

- There is clearly a missing normalization step... I'm guessing it's got a DL^2 or DL^3 term in it somewhere, and then scales to 1 through 9.

I'm completely whiffing on any suggestions for changes, other than:

- Instead of dividing by DL, maybe divide by DL^2 ?? I'd have to see this in practice before really endorsing it as more than anything but a brainstorm.

- Perhaps add a scaling factor for proximity of high level monsters to other high level monsters, to weight pits higher than solitary roaming monsters.

- This proximity factor would be something like (MLn / (MLi * SQRT(Xdistance_i^2, Ydistance_i^2)) for each monster n to each other monster i... needs more thought... this can become computationally intensive.

- Perhaps filter out monsters in the above for which (MLn - DL) < 0 to reduce the calculation burden.

 August 4, 2020, 11:32 #35 Huqhox Adept     Join Date: Apr 2016 Age: 50 Posts: 135 After a mere few seconds of thought, my instant (and probably incorrect) reaction to this is: Do we care about under depth monsters at all? They don't necessarily make the level easier. What I am worried about is what OOD nasties I am going to encounter, not if there's the odd grey mold or jackal I'm going to mow down without even noticing __________________ "This has not been a recording"
August 5, 2020, 07:40   #36
Werbaer

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 138
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Werbaer Very rare, but possible. I just had a 1-6 level at 2450'. A very small cavern level (100 x 35), with a Demonic Q (2250') as the only monster native below 1500'.
And now a 1-6 level at 4000'. Again a 100 x 35 cavern level, with a Glabrezu (from 2150') as deepest monster.

 August 12, 2020, 06:16 #37 Ugramoth Apprentice   Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 52 I agree that early 9-2 is probably a pit full of experience and late 9-2 is treasure packed unique lurching around on otherwise empty level. By the way, do mimics cause feelings? I swear several times I've gotten something like ?-8 on a level with literally nothing on it except potion mimic posing as augmentation or experience.
August 13, 2020, 04:47   #38
Sphara
Swordsman

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Finland
Posts: 335
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ugramoth By the way, do mimics cause feelings? I swear several times I've gotten something like ?-8 on a level with literally nothing on it except potion mimic posing as augmentation or experience.
Again, without knowing how to code-dive, I dare to say: no.
I've seen a Ring of Speed on ?-2 level floor and I just attacked it afar knowing it's a mimic, without bothering to bump into it.

I've also had a rare situation, where I absolutely could not find the big feeling -item from early dungeon. For an item that monster can pick up, one rare occurrence is that Novice Rogue picks up a ring of speed or a potion of experience and Blubbering Icky Thing then tramples over him destroying the item in process

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