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View Poll Results: Should iron spikes be given the heave-ho?
No, I luvs me my spikes. 5 22.73%
Eh, doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. 11 50.00%
Spikes are simply tools of Satan and should be taken out immediately, if not sooner. 6 27.27%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 24, 2013, 17:09   #11
takkaria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
It depends on the monster's level, actually. Higher-level monsters take less time to bash down doors (and doors deeper down are typically harder to bash down, as well, though it doesn't really scale with player power very well).
That doesn't correspond with my copy of the source, which seems to indicate one successful monster bash is required to bring the door down one difficulty level. Monster level is similarly uninvolved, it's all about monster HP. What are you reading?

place_closed_door() in generate.c also seems to indicate that there is no correlation between depth in the dungeon and difficulity of the lock - it's all based on random numbers (generate.c:594).
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Old January 24, 2013, 17:22   #12
Derakon
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I'm looking at monster/melee2.c, where the game reduces the door's strength by 1 each time the monster successfully bashes it until the strength hits 0, at which point it breaks open. You're right though that the monster's current HP are used to calculate bash chance (as 1d(HP / 10) > (door strength)). My memory's clearly a bit fuzzy, but since monster HP scales rather abruptly with monster level, it's not a huge deal.

Since door strength caps at 7, monsters quickly reach the point where they succeed on practically all of their bash attempts, which means it takes them at most 7 tries to break a door down. For example, a Black Knight has on average 165 HP, which means they roll a 1d16 when trying to break a door down -- they'll succeed more than half the time against even the strongest doors, and as the door weakens their success rate goes up.
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Old January 24, 2013, 17:23   #13
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Originally Posted by half View Post
I'm not sure if you are joking there or not! I think Sil already has a solution to this that V might want. There is a Staff of Imprisonment which closes and locks all doors in LOS. Actually, it moves them along the process of being closed and increasingly well locked and goes further if you are better at using staffs. This replaces spikes, is more fun, and creates a somewhat interesting ambiguous item type. It is still a waste of a slot in many cases, but is at least better than spikes as it is lighter and can be used at range.
Oh yeah derp! I always throw those away but you're right! haha

I guess this is what happens when I quit the game for more than a week or so
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Old January 24, 2013, 17:55   #14
Alice
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Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Actually there are already different levels of doors with jamming - if you spike a door three times, it will take a monster three times to bash it down. (See monster/melee2.c:3113)
I never knew that. Wow, thanks!
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Old January 24, 2013, 18:18   #15
Deof Movestofca
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I guess this is what happens when I quit the game for more than a week or so
Noticing any withdrawal symptoms?
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Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Actually there are already different levels of doors with jamming - if you spike a door three times, it will take a monster three times to bash it down.
I could see how spiking a door would make a monster take longer in opening it, but I don't understand why that would affect how long it took a monster to simply destroy it. (In the first scenario, the door would still be in pretty much one piece, so there would be a chance it could still be closed; in the second, the door is pretty much pieces of wood (or rubble).

But back to my original point of the post, which is in what situations do/have people used spikes for? I suppose they might be more useful if someone set the "Monsters chase recent locations" to "yes". It's just that I've never used them and never been in a situation where they would seem to be useful, although I will grant that I probably play a lot more conservatively than most.
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Old January 25, 2013, 02:24   #16
Djabanete
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I can't be the only one who's used spikes for their nominal purpose, jamming doors. There are situations when every turn of HP regeneration matters
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Old January 25, 2013, 23:30   #17
Deof Movestofca
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I guess I've just been lucky (or played conservatively enough) where the issue of a spiked door or not has been the difference between life and death (or even life and very close death).
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Old January 25, 2013, 23:42   #18
Oramin
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Originally Posted by Djabanete View Post
I can't be the only one who's used spikes for their nominal purpose, jamming doors. There are situations when every turn of HP regeneration matters
I think I used them - back in the mid-90s.
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Old January 26, 2013, 02:03   #19
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I think I used them - back in the mid-90s.
I remember when I first discovered uMoria in about 1996 on the old Acorn computers at my school...of course Angband was already out but didn't know about it. Well, I threw some iron spikes at Battle Scarred Veterans in uMoria, to little effect!

Took another year until I started playing Angband, 2.7.8 I think, gave up on the iron spikes when I found Anduril.
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