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Old May 11, 2020, 06:34   #1
FokinLegend
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Smile FrogComposBand Noob questions

Hi, I am having trouble understanding a few aspects.

-When personality is set to chaotic, does it affect your character differently when you pick a monster such as a spider as opposed to a normal race like a human? I feel like when a god polymorphs me and I'm playing as a monster, it does nothing.
Also related question, when a god says "Let me mold thee!" what does that do? It seems to reduce random stats by -2 or -1 and give roughly the same amount of stats back in a different stat location but sometimes it adds up to a net positive and sometimes not. Is there just a separate roll that is calculated after you receive that god's "mold" effect? It always seems to affect my most unneeded stat in a positive way and reduce a needed one, lol.
Also, from my understanding the stats gained from your personality, ie your chaos patron in this case, these can make it so you can get a higher maximum stat at endgame?

-I always seem to be holding way too many items. Not enough space and always micro-managing my inventory wishing I had something to hold all my potions or scrolls. What are the must have potions/scrolls you should always carry? I play on normal game speed. I understand the answer varies based on your class, but as a warrior I always have a few of the best healing pots i can find, Heroism in one form or another, antidote pots, resist heat/cold pots, scrolls or a staff or whatever of teleportation, potions of curing, mushrooms of quick recovery, arrows or iron shots, and usually a staff or rod of enlightenment and some way to identify my items. Also I sometimes stash potions of restore stat/life levels but I feel like this is unnecessary as you can go get healed. And that's my usual loadout at level 20. It's way too much or not?
Related question - strength doesn't increase the amount if item slots you can carry, only the combined weight of items, correct?

-I have trouble judging if I am able to go to a certain dungeon somewhere on the map. Last time I was level 30 and tried to go and complete a quest at the Giant's Hall. It was a lvl 30 quest so I figured it was a good place to gain levels. I got ambushed by a group of dragons, some elder and all different kinds. I felt like this was way out of my level range but maybe I was wrong, because I managed to get away and kill a few. But it happened a second time on my way there, and this time my supplies were burnt/used and I died quickly. Was it just an unlucky thing to have happen, an ambush of such greatness or I was in the wrong location at my level? I like the wilderness and I don't mind dying if it was bad luck or whatever, just having trouble trying to learn from this little thing. Is it possible to have escape an ambush using teleport, but then have the rest catch up with you after using the < open map to escape (kind of) and then coming back down > again?

-I have lots of questions about playing as rings and as death-swords. While playing as a sword or filthy rag, what exactly does absorb equipment do?? Everything seems to work fine when I absorb jewelry as a ring, but absorbing a chaos sword as a death sword will not give me a chaos brand? Am I supposed to be absorbing every good weapon I find and it stacks, or am I supposed to be choosing the best thing, and every time I absorb a wep the last one gets replaced? I don't know if i'm just wrong but from my understanding, you are supposed to be able to absorb the effects of the weapon, right? get different brands and slays. Idk why I didn't get that in my character info after absorbing that weapon. I think it was an ego weapon. Does it have to be a special instead?
I need more tips when playing as a ring. I feel like I never know enough about the thing that I'm riding. For example, last time I got Smeagol to equip me. I felt like this was a pretty decent mount and I had like 18/40 charisma or something at that early level, dumping it all into charisma. He threw my ass off like 25 turns later. Is this chance based on the monster at all or just your charisma stat? Should I just try dungeon diving as fast as I can down in a dangerous dungeon, and then look for a powerful mount, or is that stupid because the mount will just throw me off at such a high npc monster level? Or doesn't their level matter? Maybe I am getting too picky with choosing my mount as they never last a long time? Maybe I should only be looking for mounts that have speed since I can cast more spells that way.

-Sometimes, when going into a quest dungeon, the layout is completely open instead of having some tunnels, 1x1 areas to funnel monsters. Sometimes I feel like just failing the quest if it turns out to be a huge open circle which it sometimes is in the early bear den quest. is this wrong to do, am I handling it wrong or should I change my settings of the dungeons to small or something?

Thanks guys, I know I have a lot of jumbled up questions but any imput would be appreciated.
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Old May 11, 2020, 07:06   #2
emulord
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For death swords and filthy rags, yes the number of essences you have and require to get a flag is shown near the bottom of your character sheet. Absorb everything, it stacks. Don't worry about cursed items, you don't pick up bad flags.

I believe the chance for a ring character getting thrown off is Charisma related and also probably health of your mount. I dont play them so idk.

Quests are static, and yeah some of them are open areas. Bring !Speed, light, lots of stealth can help too. Otherwise, just wait and be overpowered for the quest.

Wilderness ambushes can be rougher than dungeon adventuring. Bring teleports, healing etc. I avoid excessive wilderness wandering for this reason. Use the town teleport service, its well worth the gold cost.

If you have too much stuff, your home can be a good place to stow some gear for later. I put early potions of Healing there before i have enough HP to really use them. You'll appreciate having resources later.
I generally carry a way to escape, 2 ways to heal, 1 way to cure status effects, Restore life ONLY if expecting to fight undead, way to identify, food, oil if needed, word of recall, ranged attack stuff (arrows, wands, rods as appropriate)
I tend to have 6 or more free slots to pick up loot.
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Old May 11, 2020, 07:28   #3
FokinLegend
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Ohh that totally answers my question about absorbing, I must have missed that. Thanks for the tips, they will certainly make my runs better
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Old May 11, 2020, 11:52   #4
Sideways
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FokinLegend View Post
Hi, I am having trouble understanding a few aspects.

-When personality is set to chaotic, does it affect your character differently when you pick a monster such as a spider as opposed to a normal race like a human? I feel like when a god polymorphs me and I'm playing as a monster, it does nothing.
Yes, monster races never get race-polymorphed (although this is also the case for some non-monster-races such as Androids and Werewolves).

Quote:
Also related question, when a god says "Let me mold thee!" what does that do? It seems to reduce random stats by -2 or -1 and give roughly the same amount of stats back in a different stat location but sometimes it adds up to a net positive and sometimes not. Is there just a separate roll that is calculated after you receive that god's "mold" effect?
The mold effect itself is simply an increase to 1 random stat (for most patrons, the random selection is somewhat biased towards that particular patron's favorite stat). Everything else you're seeing is just the normal re-rolling of your Chaotic personality stat bonuses on CL gain.

Quote:
Also, from my understanding the stats gained from your personality, ie your chaos patron in this case, these can make it so you can get a higher maximum stat at endgame?
There's a bunch of different answers to this question. The stat increases you get from your patron just increase your "base" stat value (let's say base Strength for example purposes), the same way a Potion of Strength would. Base stat values are capped, the caps are somewhere between 18/70 and 18/130 (look in the in-game FAQ under "internal stat caps" for the details), and the patron buffs will never increase your base STR beyond that cap.

The stat bonuses (or penalties) you actually get from your personality, though, go on top of the base value (the same way race and class bonuses do) and ignore the internal cap. So if you have a cap of 18/70 but get +2 bonus STR from the personality, you can reach 18/90 STR.

By the endgame, though, you will likely be getting much larger STR bonuses from your equipment. The ultimate cap is always 18/220, and is not affected by your internal caps, your race/class/personality/equipment/mutation bonuses or indeed anything; you can always get as high as 18/220 (and no higher) by piling on enough STR items.

Quote:
-I always seem to be holding way too many items. Not enough space and always micro-managing my inventory wishing I had something to hold all my potions or scrolls. What are the must have potions/scrolls you should always carry? I play on normal game speed. I understand the answer varies based on your class, but as a warrior I always have a few of the best healing pots i can find, Heroism in one form or another, antidote pots, resist heat/cold pots, scrolls or a staff or whatever of teleportation, potions of curing, mushrooms of quick recovery, arrows or iron shots, and usually a staff or rod of enlightenment and some way to identify my items. Also I sometimes stash potions of restore stat/life levels but I feel like this is unnecessary as you can go get healed. And that's my usual loadout at level 20. It's way too much or not?
That sounds mostly very reasonable - I would probably add even more stuff on top of that, like scrolls of phase door, an offensive device and some source of confusion!

Projectiles like arrows and iron shots consume no inventory space if you put them in your quiver (they'll still count as weight carried, of course). Potions of Resist Heat/Cold are useful in some situations but not something I tend to carry much, at CL 20 you don't need those resists that badly yet and pretty soon you'll be wanting 2x rFire/Cold from your equipment anyway. I tend to prefer Mushrooms of Cure Poison to Potions of Antidote except on Troika Disciples, and on Snotlings because (while Snotlings get extra bonuses from mushrooms!) they cannot buy mushrooms reliably. Potions of Healing, like emulord said, are something you'll need more later than now; early in the game you are better off with a big pile of Potions of Cure Serious Wounds, although if you're past 300 HP and have enough rCold that they're not getting destroyed all the time then by all means also carry a Potion of Healing or two.

Quote:
Related question - strength doesn't increase the amount if item slots you can carry, only the combined weight of items, correct?
Correct.

Quote:
-I have trouble judging if I am able to go to a certain dungeon somewhere on the map. Last time I was level 30 and tried to go and complete a quest at the Giant's Hall. It was a lvl 30 quest so I figured it was a good place to gain levels. I got ambushed by a group of dragons, some elder and all different kinds. I felt like this was way out of my level range but maybe I was wrong, because I managed to get away and kill a few. But it happened a second time on my way there, and this time my supplies were burnt/used and I died quickly. Was it just an unlucky thing to have happen, an ambush of such greatness or I was in the wrong location at my level?
Seems like just really bad luck, though wilderness ambushes happen more often at night and at low stealth, so there are ways to improve your odds. (Also, the only quest at the Giant's Hall is a level 36 one, so I'm a little confused! If it was really a level 30 quest you were likely going to the wrong place altogether; Orc Cave has a level 30 quest.)

Quote:
I like the wilderness and I don't mind dying if it was bad luck or whatever, just having trouble trying to learn from this little thing. Is it possible to have escape an ambush using teleport, but then have the rest catch up with you after using the < open map to escape (kind of) and then coming back down > again?
If you make it to the overworld map you're safe from those particular monsters.

Quote:
I need more tips when playing as a ring. I feel like I never know enough about the thing that I'm riding. For example, last time I got Smeagol to equip me. I felt like this was a pretty decent mount and I had like 18/40 charisma or something at that early level, dumping it all into charisma. He threw my ass off like 25 turns later. Is this chance based on the monster at all or just your charisma stat?
It depends on the monster's level, your level, and your charisma. Uniques (while otherwise good mounts) are also somewhat more likely to throw you off, still sounds like you got unlucky with Smeagol though.

Quote:
Should I just try dungeon diving as fast as I can down in a dangerous dungeon, and then look for a powerful mount, or is that stupid because the mount will just throw me off at such a high npc monster level?
That's extremely risky, yes. Though like many risky things, it can pay off!

You are right that speed is a very important attribute in a mount. Also helps to use Haste Monster and Heal Monster on your mount.

Quote:
Sometimes, when going into a quest dungeon, the layout is completely open instead of having some tunnels, 1x1 areas to funnel monsters. Sometimes I feel like just failing the quest if it turns out to be a huge open circle which it sometimes is in the early bear den quest. is this wrong to do, am I handling it wrong or should I change my settings of the dungeons to small or something?
Quest layouts are specific to each particular quest and, as emulord noted, essentially fixed (a few quests do have odd things where door or wall or corridor placement is semi-random, and several quests can have traps in unexpected places). In the case of the bear quest, you also know what monsters you will face: bears! So now that you've seen the bear quest a couple times, you can make educated decisions like "I'm not ready for the bears yet" - or develop educated strategies for defeating the bears
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Old May 11, 2020, 23:14   #5
FokinLegend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
Yes, monster races never get race-polymorphed (although this is also the case for some non-monster-races such as Androids and Werewolves).
I see, very helpful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
The mold effect itself is simply an increase to 1 random stat (for most patrons, the random selection is somewhat biased towards that particular patron's favorite stat). Everything else you're seeing is just the normal re-rolling of your Chaotic personality stat bonuses on CL gain.
So when your personality is set to Chaotic, you get random stat increases/decreases on CL gain no matter your patron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
The stat bonuses (or penalties) you actually get from your personality, though, go on top of the base value (the same way race and class bonuses do) and ignore the internal cap. So if you have a cap of 18/70 but get +2 bonus STR from the personality, you can reach 18/90 STR.
I see. So those levels gained/lost on CL gain are your personality-gained stats? Very cool feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
Seems like just really bad luck, though wilderness ambushes happen more often at night and at low stealth, so there are ways to improve your odds. (Also, the only quest at the Giant's Hall is a level 36 one, so I'm a little confused! If it was really a level 30 quest you were likely going to the wrong place altogether; Orc Cave has a level 30 quest.)
If that's the case then I can definitely see why I got ambushed and killed. It was 6 levels out of my range and since the wildy can be more dangerous, it makes sense. Also did not know that about stealth, nice. I had recently sold some enchanted boots of stealth so it was probably a bad move on my part!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
It depends on the monster's level, your level, and your charisma. Uniques (while otherwise good mounts) are also somewhat more likely to throw you off, still sounds like you got unlucky with Smeagol though.
You are right that speed is a very important attribute in a mount. Also helps to use Haste Monster and Heal Monster on your mount.
Awesome ideas, I am thinking of loads of tactics to use now as a ring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
Quest layouts are specific to each particular quest and, as emulord noted, essentially fixed (a few quests do have odd things where door or wall or corridor placement is semi-random, and several quests can have traps in unexpected places). In the case of the bear quest, you also know what monsters you will face: bears! So now that you've seen the bear quest a couple times, you can make educated decisions like "I'm not ready for the bears yet" - or develop educated strategies for defeating the bears
Okay, thanks I think that solves most of my questions about questing. It is such a big difference to the randomly generated dungeons but it allows for planning. So the rewards for quests - some are based on your race, and some are static rewards correct?

(Thanks for teaching me this stuff, I try not to ask questions that are already answered or stated somewhere in-game, so I appreciate your patience guys)
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Old May 11, 2020, 23:48   #6
Sideways
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Originally Posted by FokinLegend View Post
So when your personality is set to Chaotic, you get random stat increases/decreases on CL gain no matter your patron?
In a way, yes. Your base value for the stat does not get any up/down directly from the personality, only indirectly through the patron (as happens with the "mold" effect) but you get additional bonuses/penalties from the personality itself on top of that.

If you look at your character sheet, there's a line where it says "Base R C P E Total" and the Base for a particular stat might be 18/33, the P -2 and the Total 18/13. Base is the base value, R the bonuses from your race, C the bonuses from your class, P the bonuses from your personality, E the bonuses from your equipment and Total everything added up together; so rewards or punishments from your patron can affect the Base, the Chaotic personality rerolls the P every CL, and both count for the total but the difference is important in practice due to 1) Base being capped and 2) further Base increases being non-linear after 18.

Quote:
Okay, thanks I think that solves most of my questions about questing. It is such a big difference to the randomly generated dungeons but it allows for planning. So the rewards for quests - some are based on your race, and some are static rewards correct?
Yes (though outside Monster Mode it more often depends on class than race). Some of the rewards are also more random than others, and some have unusual specifications like different rewards for normal mode and coffee-break/no-wilderness.

Note though that while all town quests have fixed or nearly fixed layouts, and many of them also have fixed or nearly fixed monsters, a few are less predictable monster-wise. The most random town quest is The Vault in Telmora, it can notoriously be very nasty for the depth if you get really unlucky with the monsters who generate.
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Last edited by Sideways; May 12, 2020 at 00:00.
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Old May 12, 2020, 07:44   #7
Bostock
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One perhaps-obvious note on item loadouts: beyond some universals that are hardly debated, there are matters on which gentlemen can and do disagree, or are matters of taste, or fit better or worse with a player's broader playstyle, and are really part of the art and joy of playing the game. :-) Just to give an example, you'd less often see me carrying mushrooms of cure poison than sideways does (though I do sometimes carry them), and more often see me carrying rFireCold (though I don't carry them THAT much, it's more than sideways, I think).

Probably not a useful comment, but I hope it's of interest!
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Old May 19, 2020, 07:49   #8
FokinLegend
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If you look at your character sheet, there's a line where it says "Base R C P E Total" and the Base for a particular stat might be 18/33, the P -2 and the Total 18/13. Base is the base value, R the bonuses from your race, C the bonuses from your class, P the bonuses from your personality, E the bonuses from your equipment and Total everything added up together; so rewards or punishments from your patron can affect the Base, the Chaotic personality rerolls the P every CL, and both count for the total but the difference is important in practice due to 1) Base being capped and 2) further Base increases being non-linear after 18.
A question regarding vortex-race. When you wield a weapon, and the weapon has chaos brand, isn't my engulf melee attack supposed to have chaos brand? Same with slays too? Or do I have to evolve more, or fully research the item or something? I must be misunderstanding the "While they may equip weapons this way, they cannot attack with them; instead, the vortex may engulf nearby mosters with "their" elemental essence."
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Old May 19, 2020, 12:34   #9
Sideways
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A question regarding vortex-race. When you wield a weapon, and the weapon has chaos brand, isn't my engulf melee attack supposed to have chaos brand? Same with slays too? Or do I have to evolve more, or fully research the item or something? I must be misunderstanding the "While they may equip weapons this way, they cannot attack with them; instead, the vortex may engulf nearby mosters with "their" elemental essence."
Vortices may engulf nearby monsters with the elemental essence of the vortex, rather than of any weapon they might have incidentally equipped. Outside slays and brands never apply to innate attacks.
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