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Old June 23, 2014, 06:55   #1
Mark
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Create your own (mage) spellbook

I have been reading some of the posts about sorting out the mage spells, and that they aren't as powerful as holy spells on average. I found it fun to dream up a new spellbook. Not a serious proposition. Perhaps you would like to dream up a spellbook and post it in this thread too?

I figure that mages should be 'more magical' than priests, and more so have 'a spell for every occasion', rather than simply more powerful spells. Here's what I came up with.

Mark's Menagerie of Missing Methods

Seal Backpack (Lvl:15; Mana:10)
Items in your backpack cannot be stolen, shattered, burnt, drained for 20d10 turns

Bolt of Fire and Frost (Lvl:20; Mana:15)
Does 8d8 damage against all creatures not resistant to both fire and frost

Detect Danger (Lvl:20; Mana:8)
Detects all out-of-depth monsters and uniques

Aura of Clarity (Lvl:25; Mana:10)
Protects against stunning, confusion and hallucination for 10+d10 turns.

Track Danger (Lvl:25; Mana:16)
Grants telepathy for all out-of-depth monsters and uniques for 50+d50 turns

Ball of Wonder (Lvl:28; Mana:30)
Each monster within a 3-radius ball is affected randomly: irresistable slowing, confusion, sleep, or attempt d200 damage of a random element

Resist Disenchantment (Lvl:30; Mana:20)
1/3 damage reduction from disenchantment. Items cannot be disenchanted. Mage only.

Charm (Lvl:32; Mana:50)
Attempts to change allegiance of a monster. Uniques and Monsters without minds are immune. Mage only

Mass Slow (Lvl:35; Mana:30)
All Monsters in LOS are slowed by -2 for level/2 turns, this cannot be resisted or stacked
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Old June 23, 2014, 09:35   #2
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I have been reading some of the posts about sorting out the mage spells, and that they aren't as powerful as holy spells on average.
Priests get temporary see-inv (sense invisible). Maybe mages could get temp ESP? Like the mushroom.

Clairvoyance should be in both magic types, just like runes. That, and detection. Or just magic mapping with level-dependent radius, so that at clvl 50 you map nearly entire level (if you are at the center of the level).

Serenity as spell? Make you temporarily invulnerable to spell-denying side-effects. Including hallucination maybe?

My favorite effect from nethack to angband = ring of conflict. As spell. Everyone fights everyone.
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Old June 23, 2014, 10:05   #3
Tibarius
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Playing a mage always feels a Little less fun for me than playing another class. Basically there are only two realy essential Drops ... raal's and kelek's. Another two which are nice but no must-haves ... resistances and escapes. And the other 4 spell books i can buy at dungeon Level 3 usually. So there is much less fun finding-Equipment. I realy would love to overwork the spells and maybe introduce two new classes doing so.

In short: currently the mage spells are a mixture of Support/Beef up spells, mixed with damage spells of elemental Magic and negative like nether/chaos bolt or the like. I use very few spells and even fewer are must-haves. Basically only haste and teleport other are must haves.
I use Magic missile until cLvl 7
i use frost bolt till clvl 30
i use acid bolt till i find raal's
i use Meteor shower till i find kelek's for mana storm

Currently just an idea, i would realy be willing to spend time and work into producing a detailed concept which could be discussed over this Forum.
Make mage spells around the theme of the elements. Give spells for Close and ranged combat. Give spells with different damage/mana Ratio.
Make ranger and thieves Magic unique. It is kinda boring and frustrating to Play a thief or ranger, find a spellbook only to see that you cannot use 4/5 of the spells in it. Reduce death/chaos/negative spells from mage/ranger class and make either a class duo necromancer/antipaladin (in opposite to Paladin and cleric) or add the thief class to the latter two. Thieves fit thematically much better to a necromancer/antipaladin Combo than to a mage/ranger Combo in my Imagination.

By the way ... to make no-sell the Standard Option, reduces the fun playing a thief in my eyes. Thief class should be the best at making Gold ... but Gold in the current game is almost obsolete except in rare circumstances.

If the developer Team in Charge likes the Basic idea, please drop me a line either in this thread or via post or email. You can set the borderlines in which a re-work should occur and i will write down a detailed concept which should be good implementable.

Cheers, TIbarius
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Old June 23, 2014, 13:10   #4
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I have been reading some of the posts about sorting out the mage spells, and that they aren't as powerful as holy spells on average. I found it fun to dream up a new spellbook.
This goes pretty strongly to variant-territory, but I have thought about that old "WIS" and "INT" separation and thought about making those as two separate "ways" to tap power, one natural "flow" (priest), one raw willpower "control" (mage).

Then make dungeon spellbooks more or less like random artifacts with random selection of spells. Give players some basic book but do not really restrict which source they use (let the race/class combination take care of which they will be better at). Natural spells in one book type, raw power spells in another.

Maybe add some legendary spellbooks or spellbook sets that have fixed really powerful spells in them like The One stays fixed in randart games.

Spell types should be more protective and more generalized in flow and more sharp and targetted in control. Weakish LoS - effects vs very powerful single target spells.
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Old June 23, 2014, 14:45   #5
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibarius View Post
In short: currently the mage spells are a mixture of Support/Beef up spells, mixed with damage spells of elemental Magic and negative like nether/chaos bolt or the like. I use very few spells and even fewer are must-haves. Basically only haste and teleport other are must haves.
I use Magic missile until cLvl 7
i use frost bolt till clvl 30
i use acid bolt till i find raal's
i use Meteor shower till i find kelek's for mana storm
As I noted in another thread, you really should be using more attack wands, especially in the period before you find Raal's. Wands, especially Drain Life wands but also including the elemental bolt and ball wands, do a lot more damage than your spells do at that point, and they don't cost mana to use so you can reserve it for escapes (or for after the wands run out). If you try to play a mage who only ever casts spells, then you're hobbling yourself. Angband mages have to be opportunists, and that includes deigning to use other means of killing monsters.

The way I see things for mages vs. priests:

Priests get healing, better detection, and a convenient attack spell in Orb of Draining

Mages get Resistance and Haste Self (and these are huge benefits), ultimately more powerful attack spells than Orb, and Greater Recharging and a higher device skill to use it with.

Priests are certainly easier to win with, because being able to throw out 300HP heals whenever you need them is just a huge ability. But they also are more gear-constrained than mages are, because Orb doesn't really keep up in the endgame (so they need to assemble a melee- or bow-based offense instead). Mages honestly could probably win with just Tenser's and a stack of Annihilation wands.
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Old June 24, 2014, 00:58   #6
krazyhades
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Priests are MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger than mages. M has died to Orb of Draining many times. Haste Self is good but Staves/Rods/Potions of speed are common enough that I've never really had or seen a lategame character really struggle to get enough temporary haste. Resistance IS really good, to be sure, but non-mages get more HPs so don't rely as much on the double resist to survive (edit: plus, priests get rFire+Cold, addressing the more frequently-faced elements).

edit: Not that I think mages need buffing. Having them as a challenge class is okay to me.
edit2: Also, of course, any player who neither sourcedives nor reads the forums will never realize the importance of using attack devices on mages, since the game doesn't show the bonus. Even forum-goers usually don't get it!

Last edited by krazyhades; June 24, 2014 at 01:43.
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Old June 24, 2014, 21:12   #7
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by krazyhades View Post
Priests are MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger than mages.
Not really, just easier. A lot easier early- to midgame. Mages are fragile which makes them hard to play early, and tactics are not same. You run away a lot.
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Old June 24, 2014, 21:46   #8
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Let me put it this way: I spend more time cackling maniacally when playing mages, and more time just grinding through fights when playing priests. Priests are nigh-unkillable, but mages feel more powerful in an "ability to affect the world" sense.
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Old June 30, 2014, 04:40   #9
krazyhades
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@Timo, I suppose you're right, though I instinctively tend to think of more easy as more powerful.
@Derakon, I LOVE cackling maniacally when playing mages.
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Old June 30, 2014, 07:02   #10
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by krazyhades View Post
@Timo, I suppose you're right, though I instinctively tend to think of more easy as more powerful.
Priest allows small mistakes, but if you don't do mistakes then I would say ranger is "easier" than anything else. At high levels that ability to inflict damage from distance can't be matched by anything. Now that it is slay + multiplier instead of slay * multiplier they are a bit less powerful than they were, but three shots from good Lothlorien or four from extra shot bow is still more than anything else can do in the game.

You can kill Sauron in ten turns with acid-branded seeker arrows with Belthronding and that's not counting criticals and allows you to miss few shots. (40 arrows * 6 * ~45 = 10800). With manastorm that would take 27 turns. With warrior 600/turn damage it's still 18 turns.

They are in fact so powerful that I think we would need to tune them down and add a archer - class that is basically warrior with rangers current ability to shoot (maybe with +1 shots with xbow). Bookless ranger is about as easy if not easier as warrior to play.
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