Difficult Games

[AndyS]

I'm new here so forgive me if this has been done to death. I know there are many articles all over the web but I'd like to kear what Angband players think. I also know there is no definitive answer to "whats the hardest game" so I'd just like to know what games you've found most difficult. Games that you can actually win, I understand that there are games you cant, like Dwarf Fortress.

I considered Angband one for me due to the fact that Ive never won. But now that I know more about it I think I can eventually. Still it's right up there for me. I'm not a heavy gamer, Ill play a game pretty intensely until I beat it and then I often wont play another for months or a year.

I found the Dark Souls (almost seems cliche to mention them in a thread like this) games quite difficult but not nearly as much as their reputation would suggest. Loved them though. I think the game I had the most trouble with was Don't Starve. It's a great little game if you don't know it. Everything looks so cute but dont let that fool you, it is sadistic, at least until you know pretty much exactly how you have to win. I didnt rely on any forums whatsoever (like Im doing here!) so that certainly added to the challenge and the reward. The final level "Darkness" drove me nuts, I died so many times on that level, sometimes within a couple of seconds of winning. I wouldn't suggest it is the hardest game or anything, because I can beat it fairly easily now, but that was a tough one for me. If it's not a topic that bores you I'd love to hear yours.

Im partial to unforgiving games where when you die you start over. Although I'm sure Id never have beaten the Souls games if that was the case. I'm not that good at games. I heard a guy beat one of them without even getting hit once. He must have been an idiot savant or something, I died over and over ad nauseum, never mind not getting hit.

I think quite a few of you are developers so understanding the mechanics of games probably makes them much easier than for someone like me who has no idea what goes on under the surface.

[Sky]

Try playing QuakeLive against people who have been playing 20 years and Dark Souls won't seem that hard anymore. Not that it ever was but, you know. DS is just the game that kills you because YOU DIDNT KNOW. Once you *do* know, it becomes almost trivial, as witnessed in the 47m speedrun to beat the entire game. No such thing in Quake. Human opponents are always 100% difficulty, no matter how good you get because they can get just as good. To win, you need to push you own boundaries .. in real time.

[AndyS]

That makes perfect sense. Ive never played a multiplayer game (except with my 7 year old nephew) so I guess I am creating some serious limitations as far as difficulty goes. Computer opponents can be "figured out". That game looks cool though, thanks, maybe I'll make that my first. I dont get frustrated when I get my ass whooped, I enjoy a challenge.

[wobbly]

Are we talking about games in general or computer games? There's chess which has 1 of the most ridiculous learning curves, takes a lot of practice before people start making moves for reasons on the board rather then because it's their turn & you have to move something. Or Go which is much easier to learn but still just as hard against a good opponent. As Sky says anything with a human opponent gets pretty hard.

With roguelikes I think DCSS is a fair bit harder then Angband though it's hard to tell when you've played a lot more of 1 then the other. Battle for Wesnoth (hex-map turn based strategy) can get quite difficult on hard mode. I think all the KOEI games also had a reputation for being hard? I haven't played them much & they are a pain to get running but I've heard good things about them.

[AndyS]

Oh yes I meant computer games. I'm actually pretty good at chess and Go, but Ive played enough to know Im not *really* good. When I was a kid I was usually the best chess player in my schools. So I thought i was a hotshot until i got a computer, a mac se30 that didnt even have graphics. But it was perfect for playing chess and discovering the internet chess club (its been a lot of years, that may not be what it's called) and being positively humbled by people around the world. I had a respectable rating but without devoting serious study to chess you cant compete with top level players. That was about the same time I discovered Angband. The lack of graphics limited my gaming choices but the depth of the games made up for it.

I'll look up those acronyms tomorrow, Im not familiar with any of those games so thank you for the suggestions. If there is a better roguelike than this one Im in for some fun forsure.

[PowerWyrm]

TomeNET: imagine playing ZAngband-based TomE in real time with features coded by a sadistic maintainer

[Mondkalb]

I have a sweet spot for FAangband, though it is considerable harder than Angband. Mostly, because I like the different wilderness environments and the different dungeons, as well as the overall "first age" theme.

[Sky]

Well ... without complicating things, Darkest Dungeon has a very good reputation as hard but playable.

I like very much FTL: Faster Than Light, it's one of the few games i play regularly.

Supreme Commander (with Sorian AI Mod) is by far the best and most complex RTS ever made.

The entire Europa Universalis series (strategic/political/management).



Truth be told, Angband ranks really high in my list of good games. There's plenty of games worth playing, both hard and not hard, depending on your preferences; and then there's garbage. The list is too long and the opinions too varied.

[Mondkalb]

I am a fan of Desktop Dungeons. The early levels are quite easy and once you get how the game works you level up fast and storm through the mid-level isles.
The real fun are the very difficult high-level dungeons.

[Derakon]

There's any number of games that are vastly harder than Angband. Go on YouTube and look up, let's see...

Celeste
Getting Over It
I Wanna Be The Boshy
Environmental Station Alpha

Granted those are all realtime games, but even with turn-based games, there's challenges like, say, beating Civilization 4 on Deity difficulty with only a single city. Compared to things like that, Angband is downright easy.