feature request - artifacts obvious on wield

[PowerDiver]

Currently, things are a bit of a mess. Your weapon pseudos as excellent, but may change to splendid when you wield it. Or you wield it without pseudo, is marked as splendid, but might still be an artifact. It could get really confusing if you are squelching excellent weapons, but your weapon marked {excellent} does not get squelched. Also, if squelching all but artifacts is allowed, you can squelch-test an unpseudoed item marked {splendid} or get confused if you don't fully understand that sometimes {splendid} means not-special, sometimes undetermined could still be special.

I'd like the following set of changes.

(1) Pseudo before wield marks an ego item {ego}, which is changed to {excellent} or {splendid} on wield.

(2) Wielded non-artifacts are immediately marked {tried} or {splendid}. {tried} will change with pseudo. Hmm -- we also need {tainted} for otherwise splendid with drain_experience, but that's a side point.

(3) Wielded artifacts are immediately marked {special}

[Magnate]

Originally Posted by PowerDiver

(1) Pseudo before wield marks an ego item {ego}, which is changed to {excellent} or {splendid} on wield.

For anyone not in this loop, {splendid} means that the item has an obvious noticeable bonus, e.g. to a stat, or to speed etc. {excellent} means it has some special power but is not splendid (e.g. Slay Orc).

(3) Wielded artifacts are immediately marked {special}

What's the need for this? Artifacts are simply {excellent} or {splendid} items which also happen to be indestructible. I don't see why their nature should be obvious on wield, until you attempt to destroy them. Am I being dim??

[PowerDiver]

Originally Posted by Magnate

For anyone not in this loop, {splendid} means that the item has an obvious noticeable bonus, e.g. to a stat, or to speed etc. {excellent} means it has some special power but is not splendid (e.g. Slay Orc).
What's the need for this? Artifacts are simply {excellent} or {splendid} items which also happen to be indestructible. I don't see why their nature should be obvious on wield, until you attempt to destroy them. Am I being dim??

Given the "artifacts never squelch" situation, anyone who wants can see if they are special by setting and unsetting "squelch all but artifacts" using 0 game turns, unless you disable squelching before pseudo. Also, it is just wrong that you do not know whether your item marked {splendid} might be an artifact, or surely is not. I suppose they could be marked {splendid+} vs {splendid} depending upon whether officially "sensed".

About 2/3 of the time, well that's just guesstimating, if you wield a standart or a randart the set of obvious flags and pvals will make it clear that it is not an ego, assuming you know the egos. I just don't see how that other 1/3 being indistinguishable for a little while is worth the annoyance in coding and confusion when inspecting or using the squelch interface.

I request that anyone who is opposed to this should state publicly that they support squelching artifacts, and further suggest how to mark things separately so that inspecting is obviously different for an unpseudoed wielded randart with just fire brand and fire resistance vs a pseudoed ego item of flame. You could also state no squelching prior to pseudo, but then we become a mortal enemies. I guess a possible compromise solution is eliminating "squelch all but artifacts".

Now that Takkaria has acceded to my request for activation without id, the case is strong. I might as well go count the number of artifacts that might be mistaken for egos just based upon wield.

Celegorm, Anarion, Hammerhand [until you notice aggr], Cambeleg [until any hit or see a sleeping monster], Gurthang, Careth Asdriag, Dagmor [until you notice regen], Mundwine, and Azaghal. Maybe Crisdurian if there is some weapon ego I cannot think of that could have SI and nothing else obvious. I might have missed something since I scanned pretty fast, but that is a *short* list and several of those become obviously not egos really fast. My earlier 2/3 was wrong. More like 9/10 are immediately distinguishable from any ego upon wield.

Noticing artifacts immediately upon wield is not that big deal to me, I suppose, but it allows thinking about various things I want to code much more cleanly. It makes inspection and squelching and player notification cleaner. All for the cost of immediate notification on merely a handful of artifacts that were not immediately obviously not egos.

[Magnate]

Fair enough. The logic is strong, but it just feels hackish in game terms - but I'm sure we can come up with some in-game rationalisation for why they're obvious. I guess if you can sense artifactness with pseudo, you should get that on wield also. (Actually I think Sang does this too - it gives you a 2nd pseudo attempt on wield.)

[Nick]

Next FA will have instant pseudo, and all artifacts pseudo as {special}. Including cursed ones.

[Marble Dice]

Originally Posted by Magnate

The logic is strong, but it just feels hackish in game terms - but I'm sure we can come up with some in-game rationalisation for why they're obvious.

If you want an RP rationalization, we are talking about the surviving masterworks of legend here. Under careful inspection, I don't see how even untrained adventurers wouldn't be able to distinguish a finely-crafted and perfectly balanced sword inscribed with Noldor runes of power and glowing with an unearthly aura from just another blade forged by Ithyl-Mak the Beastly.

I think my only suggestion would be don't actually use the {ego} label, as it seems out of character with the rest of them. Maybe use {great} or something similar?

If drain xp has an affect on an item's pseudo/wield sense class, what about aggravate or random teleportation?

[PowerDiver]

Originally Posted by Marble Dice

If drain xp has an affect on an item's pseudo/wield sense class, what about aggravate or random teleportation?

At this point in time, drain xp is considered obvious [I think, didn't check], but aggravate and random teleport are definitely defined not to be obvious, so there have to be some differences if you wield before pseudo. It's not clear to me whether those flags should affect pseudo identically or differently.

[Atarlost]

Actually, in RP terms artifacts and high egos should be pretty obvious. Many are clearly labeled. Others are just plain distinctive. Nobody is going to mistake the Ring of Barahir for anything else. Nobody literate in Quenya is going to misidentify Glamdring or Orcrist or any weapon of gondolin. Someone illiterate in Quenya might misidentify either artifact as the ego, but any sword with Feanorian writing on it is either of gondolin or an artifact. Lots of other first age artifacts are probably clearly labeled in Sindarin.

Weapons of westernesse are identifiable by the forging process. The only canonical examples described in detail are said to be damasced. Damascus steel is very distinctive and Numenorian steel will be similarly distinctive in middle earth.

Other high egos could easily be associated with inscriptions or other blindingly obvious attributes. I daresay even a half-troll warrior can tell if a sword burns things it hits

I would therefore favor on charachter knowledge gounds handling egos in a way that mimics flavoured objects, and autoidentifying artifacts.

[bio_hazard]

I'm not sure exactly what the debate is here, but as a fairly casual player I do not have all the flag combos memorized, and I don't really feel like either jumping on the internet (sometimes impossible) or digging through help files.

Is it that hard to imagine "This item looks/feels like one of a kind" or "This item is the peak of craftsmanship" If it is a pain to code something special for artifacts, then it's not worth it, but otherwise I don't mind artifacts getting special treatment since they are, well, special!