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Old August 7, 2015, 20:17   #1
TricksterWolf
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Dev question on cursed items.

I've been working on an Ang variant and I'm probably going to redo everything since 4.01 is out now. I'm pretty out of the loop on stuff though, so I figured a question or two on the dev board would be the fastest way to get back up to speed.

First off, it looks like cursed items are no longer implemented. Can anyone explain why cursed items aren't there? I presume it's because the system is being reworked, but I'm not certain what was wrong with it in the first place.

If there is in-process work on this it would help me to know about it. If there's a better way to figure this crap out than posting here (like on SF) just let me know and I will be less annoying. :V
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Old August 8, 2015, 00:36   #2
Nick
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Current situation on curses is:
  • There are still some cursed ego-items and artifacts, but these are the only cursed items
  • There is no Remove Curse, curses can only be removed by enchanting
  • Any attempt at enchanting an object has a chance to break the curse unless
  • The object is permanently cursed - the One Ring or Morgoth's crown

The plan is to introduce something along the lines of FAangband curses as described here, but this work is not started.
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Old August 8, 2015, 01:31   #3
TricksterWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Current situation on curses is:
  • There are still some cursed ego-items and artifacts, but these are the only cursed items
  • There is no Remove Curse, curses can only be removed by enchanting
  • Any attempt at enchanting an object has a chance to break the curse unless
  • The object is permanently cursed - the One Ring or Morgoth's crown
Hm. I rather prefer the older system where curse removal is guaranteed by an RC. In particular, an item becoming cursed having a chance of being destroyed is kind of horrible if it's an artifact. In Z there are a couple of artifacts which are pre-cursed which become useable once you *RC* them.

I think the most important missing feature is the CWaC attacks which can curse an equipped item, causing it to become unswappable and to misbehave (randomly activate or otherwise turn unreliable, recharge slower, etc). This adds some uncertainty a player needs to prepare for and increases the benefit of a good saving throw, making the game more interesting.

I'll probably try to reimplement cursing on my own, but I suspect it will be painful. I'm trying to draw some things in from other variants so I'll need to add back a sixth stat as well.
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Old August 8, 2015, 03:12   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TricksterWolf View Post
I'll probably try to reimplement cursing on my own, but I suspect it will be painful. I'm trying to draw some things in from other variants so I'll need to add back a sixth stat as well.
When it does get done in V, it should be in a fairly modifiable way (I hope) - but also I'm not sure how soon that will happen. I think adding back another stat shouldn't be too hard, either.

Keep us updated, this should be interesting.
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Old August 8, 2015, 08:51   #5
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I see Nick is breeding himself a variant.

If you're taking suggestions, I think the sixth stat should totally be stealth. Charisma was always just pointless.
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Old August 8, 2015, 11:27   #6
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I don't recall anything about an item becoming cursed having a chance to destroy it. If that's true, it must be pretty rare - I've never seen it happen.

A lot of the problem with the old curse system was that it was boring. Curses wouldn't let you unequip the item, but only mostly on items you'd never want to equip anyway (barring some heavily cursed artifacts). I'd rather see it as a trade off; curses would appear on items that are more powerful than normal for their depth, but having some trade-off, like not being removable, or activating themselves automatically.
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Old August 8, 2015, 16:37   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydel View Post
A lot of the problem with the old curse system was that it was boring.
By way of explanation for this point: it encouraged a style of play where you would never wield-test a newly found item (before pseudo-id) because it might be heavily cursed. This in turn encouraged scrounging/scumming for Identify scrolls and hanging on to (ultimately) useless items in your inventory. Hence: boring.
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Old August 8, 2015, 16:57   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TricksterWolf View Post
I'm trying to draw some things in from other variants so I'll need to add back a sixth stat as well.
Have you played Ironband? I like its 9 stat system much better than the traditional 6 stat system. Of course the way you gain and lose stats is also much different in Ironband, but that change is somewhat orthogonal to the change in the number and meanings of the stats.
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Old August 8, 2015, 19:08   #9
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We've had tons of discussions on how to implement curses in the past. There's lots of great stuff in the archives if you search.

Personally my opinion is that curses should be items that lure you into getting yourself killed -- great power but with great drawbacks. "I know this crown periodically makes me vulnerable to fire, but it has +20 to damage! I'll just wear it when I need it and nothing bad will happen, right?" That kind of thing.
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Old August 24, 2015, 16:20   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
I see Nick is breeding himself a variant.

If you're taking suggestions, I think the sixth stat should totally be stealth. Charisma was always just pointless.
Not in Z it wasn't. I'm implementing pets and animal empathy, both which depend upon Cha.

I have the stores working, but pulling in pets and charmed monsters will take a lot of work.
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