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Old July 10, 2020, 06:29   #21
tangar
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by licker View Post
What is the reason why this change to food was made?

It's one of the things I find most irritating about the game now. I'd be happier to just remove food entirely honestly because it always feels incredibly pointless to me, but at least in older versions you just carried a pile of sat hunger (or used the spell) and didn't really care about it.

I'm guessing it was to actually make food items have 'value' but frankly, the better solution would have been to just remove a mechanic that's only there to be annoying. (my opinion of course)
The change was made because food had become silly - every class except warriors had a Satisfy Hunger spell, so it was just another inventory tax on warriors. On the other hand, there was a certain amount of support for keeping food in the game for flavor (!) reasons, and because even in this vestigial form it occasionally led to interesting gameplay decisions.

So the current system was developed (with considerable player input) and implemented. It's probably worth listing the main features of it:
  • Full status (90% fed and above) slows the player by one point of speed for each 1%;
  • Hungry status (and weak, etc) has progressive effects the hungrier the player gets - worse to-hit, to-dam, device skill, disarm skill, and so on;
  • Regeneration is improved the better fed the player is;
  • Only a small number of classes get hunger removal spells, which only feed the player to 50%;
  • There are more interesting types of food available, some of which have secondary effects;
  • Big healing potions no longer have food value.

I'm not going to provide a rehash of the entire debate; just look at the list of forum threads and aim for the longer ones
In my variant I've removed food from the shops and rebalanced it's drop chances, so finding food is a challenge. It's become much more interesting - as sometimes (if you were unlucky in finding food) you have to play faster and roam levels for food.

But to implement it properly - there should be yet another addition - to forbid players 'grind' low dungeon lvls for food (in PWMA it's made by 'dungeon brackets' concept; yet another way - to make low lvl layers statics - won't give items drop or exp).. in Tangaria 'dungeon brackets' concept make the game something in between of Ironman and regular game... and it feel great
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Old July 10, 2020, 12:34   #22
moosferatu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
  • Hungry status (and weak, etc) has progressive effects the hungrier the player gets - worse to-hit, to-dam, device skill, disarm skill, and so on;
  • Regeneration is improved the better fed the player is;
I did not know this. I thought it only made me slow when I was above 90%. At what thresholds do these other effects kick in? When I was playing rangers I would always just use the satisfy hunger spell to keep my characters between 30%-50% feed, and completely ignored food. I assume that that range is low enough that I was negatively affected?
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Old July 10, 2020, 13:26   #23
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Hungry status kicks in when you are below 15%. Weak kicks in sometime after that (I try to avoid weak so I don't know the number). Fainting kicks in around 1% (I only know that one from drinking salt water potions about once a game).
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Old July 10, 2020, 14:15   #24
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Originally Posted by moosferatu View Post
I did not know this. I thought it only made me slow when I was above 90%. At what thresholds do these other effects kick in? When I was playing rangers I would always just use the satisfy hunger spell to keep my characters between 30%-50% feed, and completely ignored food. I assume that that range is low enough that I was negatively affected?
As noted, hunger only affects you below 15%. Regen is multiplied by (100 + fed%/3) / 100, so is about 1/3 better at 99% fed than at 1% - not a huge effect.
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Old July 10, 2020, 14:45   #25
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Thanks for the details Nick.

Maybe one day people will see the same light I see, but until then I'll just deal with it
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Old July 10, 2020, 16:00   #26
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OK, serious suggestion: we could make Slow Digestion the best possible version of itself.
  • You are always treated as if you are full (90%)
  • Your food meter cannot go up or down
  • When you remove this flag you return to whatever hunger level you had when you put it on

Change the name from Slow Digestion to Sustenance, maybe. Amulet of Sustenance, for example. Make this flag a little more pricey in value calculations.
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Old July 10, 2020, 16:05   #27
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Not that I've ever had an objection to the food meter, which seems like a very easy part of the game to manage. I'm more interested to see what minutiae these people complain about next with a change like I suggested above.
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Old July 10, 2020, 19:50   #28
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Not that I've ever had an objection to the food meter, which seems like a very easy part of the game to manage. I'm more interested to see what minutiae these people complain about next with a change like I suggested above.
Your suggestion above is fine, why would anyone complain about it?

The point about food isn't if it's easy or difficult to manage, it's that it serves no larger purpose. It is not an interesting choice, it is a trivial mechanic which requires only the most basic interaction with.

So why keep it?

Answers such as 'mushrooms! or food effects!' are completely beside the point. You can keep such effects in the game simply as alternatives to !?-_ if you like, but the meter in and of itself is simply not a very interesting, or dynamic system.

If it's there for 'immersion' or 'flavor' so be it. I'd still prefer a birth option to turn it off. But I'm not really pushing that as some sort of demand or anything, just expressing my opinion. I already live with it, most of the time I don't really care about it, but I still don't see a reason beyond 'immersion' for it to be in the game.
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Old July 10, 2020, 21:54   #29
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I disagree with the premise above. Very few people complain, really, about having to eat some rations from time to time. People complain about not being able to keg stand 20 potions of cure X wounds. It *is* a meaningful limit on potions which have 0% fail rate and can be drunk in any enemy- imposed condition that I'm aware of, when you get a turn (so not paralysis or KO). When someone proposes any kind of alternative limiting factor on potions, that is worth listening to. The cool down idea, for example, would be a reasonable alternative.
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Old July 10, 2020, 22:23   #30
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I'd argue that people can still keg down 20 potions if they hit R9999 before recalling from town & that's the kind of micro management that bugs some of us.

As a note, I've been pretty vocal about disliking this mechanic & I'm probably an outlier in that I play the game without the rest command 99% of the time. For me it is very much forcing me to play the game in a way I'd rather not, with little actual gain. If you aren't resting this mechanic is horrible. It's like being randomly struck with -x speed just for playing the game in the wrong fashion. I literally don't eat, & my food counter just goes up & up. & then I'm slowed forever, or at least till I drink salt water or press R9999 & apparently something was gained?

I don't mind food and eating, I've always defended it for flavour reasons, but the mechanic as is? in my opinion borked. old style gorged was less painful.

Last edited by wobbly; July 10, 2020 at 22:39.
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