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Old July 11, 2020, 04:15   #21
Sky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whartung View Post
Don't the "drops" get better after DL40? .
well, yes they do, but; every so often, the game will generate special rooms. Some are rooms with specific objects in them, some are vaults.
Every special room and vault has something better than your standard drops. A greater vault will have objects of X levels depth greater than the level you currently are at.

Most objects in Angband have a basic depth of less than 40 + vault value.
You can find bows of lothlorien, rings of speed, rods of speed / healing / restoration, etc in a DL40 vault.
Now, obviously, the deeper you are, the better the objects. Afaik, the greatest depth value is 127, which means you need to be on DL90+ AND in a vault to find that stuff - think The One Ring, Dragon Armor artifacts, etc.
(obviously, these object can be generated at ANY depth, but the chances are much smaller)

But, greater vaults also have deeper enemies. And, at DL40, a greater vault will have enemies which are considerably easier than the same vault at DL70.
Sure, you may find a Greater Wyrm, or a Horned Reaper, but it will likely just be one or two of these, instead of, say, a dozen archliches, 3/4 uniques, Druji, greater Qultilugs, etc.

So, if you find a vault or good special room on DL30/40/50, you will likely have no problem clearing it out - just teleport out everything that could hurt you. And, you can keep looking for special room as much as you like, because, it's not like anything on DL40 is gonna pose a serious threat, if you have decent equipment, AND you get XP for doing that.
Out Of Depth monsters are something that you should *always* take into consideration, but again, that's what detection spells are for.

Once you go deep, you will need to fight a lot more. And a greater vault at DL70 can be a nightmare, if you dont have really high stealth or unless you are really well kitted.

As you mentioned, Time Hounds and Plasma Hounds are horrible enemies, they wake very easily, have some of the deadliest attacks in the game, and almost no payoff in killing them. Generally if i see them on a level, i leave right away, they are just that deadly.
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Old July 11, 2020, 22:43   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
But, greater vaults also have deeper enemies. And, at DL40, a greater vault will have enemies which are considerably easier than the same vault at DL70.
Sure, you may find a Greater Wyrm, or a Horned Reaper, but it will likely just be one or two of these, instead of, say, a dozen archliches, 3/4 uniques, Druji, greater Qultilugs, etc.
So, basically, you just scum L40 until you feel you're geared enough to dive to 98?
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Old July 12, 2020, 03:50   #23
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Originally Posted by whartung View Post
So, basically, you just scum L40 until you feel you're geared enough to dive to 98?
well .. yes.

by geared, i mean that i have the following:
1. base resist
2. rPois
3. pBlind pConf SI FA
4. ESP
5. TO
6. something that does damage
7. a sizable stack of CCW and Spd
8. detect treasure and magic mapping

i also reeeealy like to have rNexus (to avoid being kicked out of good levels) and HL

generally, in the time i get these (teleport others tends to be the most difficult one) i'll also have found a whole lot of stat potions and have killed enough low level mobs to hit CL35.

i really should explian that i dont need to grind for these things. For example, i like to carry a rod of slow monsters, even when i can cast it. This is because the spell failure is higher than the rod failure, early on mana is scarce, so the rod makes sense.
I dont need to TRY to find a rod, because finding a rod is a given - it will happen. Everything i listed above is just stuff that is very common at that depth. I would be foolish if i said "i dont go below DL40 until i have extra blows, arkenstone, *Fire, and pStun" because - while those are great things to have - they are not necessary to be safe at lower depths. And they are also rare, at which point grinding for those can put you into those very rare, very unfortunate situation that occasionally happen in Angband.

Capisc? Grind yes, but in moderation. Like, it's nice to have rods of Detection, but in a pinch rods of detect treasure work just as well.
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Old July 12, 2020, 19:46   #24
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Interesting strategy. I don't recall reading this particular one before, and a lot of what you are saying makes sense. When I came back to the game in October I got breathed on and killed by something way OOD and while it was very annoying, I acknowledged that it was probably necessary to keep the game interesting. Strategies like this show that OOD monsters are indeed necessary, or there would be even less that could go wrong.

We use turncounts as a tiebreaker between winners. I'm assuming this strategy comes at the cost of higher turncounts (not that everyone cares about this metric)?
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Old July 13, 2020, 03:22   #25
Pete Mack
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This strategy is *very* old. It comes down to 'stat gain at DL 40' and it goes back to well before I joined rgra a dozen years ago.
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Old July 13, 2020, 07:23   #26
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What I used to read long ago was to stay at DL 30 or a little deeper until your stats were way up. I personally never read that DL 40 is the sweet spot for loot more generally.
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Old July 13, 2020, 07:27   #27
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For instance, here:
https://thangorodrim.net/TANG/index.html

It suggests you don't go past DL38 without "maxxed" stats. The advice in this guide is not very much like Sky's suggestions in this thread, imo.
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Old July 13, 2020, 07:55   #28
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That was back when vaults were rarer (so massively OOD monsters were rarer, and OOD monsters roaming in the open even more so), but some extremely deadly insta-killy monsters (dracoliches, dracolisks, drolems and to a lesser extent AMHDs) were both more dangerous than now and native to much shallower depths than now. AMHDs were DL 43, drolems were DL 44, dracoliches and dracolisks were DL 46; and speed was much harder to find, ESP was also fairly rare (and maybe somewhat underappreciated because of drolems).

So it was a not uncommon strategy to simply grind your way to >550 HP (and rPois for drolems and AMHDs) before entering dracolich territory. Boring enough that most modern players don't do that even when they revisit older Angbands, but it did make basic sense in that environment.
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Old July 19, 2020, 06:42   #29
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This strategy is *very* old. It comes down to 'stat gain at DL 40' and it goes back to well before I joined rgra a dozen years ago.
i have encountered the same issue with "strategies" in other games that have long-standing communities; you'll have a veteran who has spent years going through various strategies, which has an indepth knowledge of the game, and they will tell a newcomer "here is the latest, most advanced strategy" without remembering what's it like to *not* know the game.

The longer i play, the closer i get to the "dive fast" strategy, but that's on the back of having played this game now for a few years. Certainly that would not be a good strategy to teach someone who - like me - comes form a D&D, kill-every-mob mentality, without them having the time to learn more about angband.

The strategy above is, simply a successful strategy. It completely ignores things like missed moves, tiredness, attention span. All it does is take into consideration the dungeon as it is. AND, it is my opinion, that as a strategy, it is better suited to beginning players than the "mountaineer" strategy everyone here loves so much.
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Old July 19, 2020, 15:05   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMedley View Post
For instance, here:
https://thangorodrim.net/TANG/index.html

It suggests you don't go past DL38 without "maxxed" stats. The advice in this guide is not very much like Sky's suggestions in this thread, imo.
In my opinion, the advice in that old guide has been thoroughly debunked by numerous players.
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