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Old March 7, 2012, 22:43   #41
fizzix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CunningGabe View Post
Having monsters set off traps wouldn't be too difficult. But how do you decide how likely a monster is to notice or evade a trap? And once you figure that out, you need a lot of storage if you want every monster to maintain its own list of which traps it knows about. Maybe it would be easiest to only allow "obvious" traps to hit monsters.
Here's how I envision this

Obvious/unavoidable traps (example pits) If you enter this square you fall into the pit. You cannot disarm these traps, they are a feature of the dungeon. The best you can do is climb out the other side. Monsters always avoid these if possible, if not they just take the damage.

Obvious/avoidable traps (example turrets) Everyone can see this trap. However, you can avoid the effect with sufficiently high dexterity (or proper resistance). Again intelligent monsters avoid these if possible. If they can't, (and they're intelligent) they may attempt to disarm it.

Unobvious/avoidable traps. (example darts, teleportation squares) Entering the square will set off the trap. Monsters don't know about these, and don't bother avoiding them. You always get a saving throw against the trap. Monsters don't bother avoiding these, but get a saving throw just as a player. Generally monsters get a better saving throw than the player. These traps can be created by spells.

We could even include a "IMM_TRAP" flag for some skilled monsters like master thieves, master rogues, harowen, sauron, wormtongue, etc. These monsters never set off avoidable traps, and always succeed in disarming avoidable ones.

So basically the idea is that monsters are generally dumb or overconfident in their abilities to avoid a trap. Can this be manipulated for player benefit? Yes. But I think it's actually a fun way of manipulating monsters.

Of course we need to figure out how to deal with a stat-drain dart hitting a monster. Or even more confusing, one that steps on a summoning square.
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Old March 8, 2012, 04:28   #42
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With the ideas put forth so far, there are just awesome things that can be implemented to enrich the game. Everything from Varyo placing fire turrets to the elemental themed vaults.

The vault with air, fire, earth, and water turrets in opposite corners (or wings), maybe with their appropriate monsters, with halls that spiral or lead into the central room with the chromatic turret that fires off something attention grabbing like power dragon breath. Only rogues need apply to this vault...

And let us not forget about the monster turret - that shoots (summons) a monster every few turns once activated (by stepping into the room or inspecting a chest). Of course, I like the idea of it shooting snaga at the @'s head for damage equal to the hapless goblin's health, but I have strange idiosyncrasies like that.

I am getting giddy with the coolness that an updated trap system can bring!
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Old March 12, 2012, 19:31   #43
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The basic functionality is mostly done; I should have something playtestable in a day or two. I'll post here once I make the pull request to summarize what is included and what I still plan to do (which is quite a lot).
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Old March 15, 2012, 11:45   #44
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The new trap code is now in v4! Here is a summary of the changes so far:

Code:
Changes:
1. Detection
	a. All characters have a detection radius of 1, or 2 when they search.
	b. Secret doors are always detected when they are within detection radius.
	c. Some races/classes have had their search skill changed, and WIS/INT both contribute to search skill.
	d. Mimics and Lurkers are detected if search skill surpasses 45 + DL/2.
	e. Traps are detected if search skill surpasses their hiddenness rating, which is approximately 35 + DL/2 +/- 5 for an average trap.
	f. Trap detection spells haven't been changed yet, nor has the DTrap border.
2. Evasion
	a. It is now possible to evade a trap if your DEX is high enough.
3. Trap types
	a. Traps now enforce a min level and a max level.
	b. Many traps have been split into multiple types, with deeper traps being more dangerous.
	c. Chest traps are completely gone.
4. Under the hood
	a. Traps have been removed from terrain.txt, and a new trap layer has been created.
	b. Some small amount of work has been done to make use of the terrain flags, and unhardcode terrain types. 
	(For example, try adding PWALK to the granite walls, and then walk right through them!)
I would encourage you to try to play without using trap detection. I haven't decided yet how I will deal with that exactly, but for the moment, I think the game is playable without it.

There are currently not very many kinds of "deep" traps -- only 3 kinds are possible after DL50. Fixing this is one of my first priorities, and I will be drawing from the trap brainstorming thread. You can add your own traps if you want them to use an effect that already exists.

I am also planning to work on the other 2 mechanical aspects of traps -- disarming and evasion. Eventually, a trap will have a rating for how hidden it is, how hard it is to disarm, and how hard it is to avoid setting it off. One of the thoughts I've had is that magical traps, like teleportation and summoning, could possibly be made so that they cannot be disarmed except by magical means. So you either avoid them completely, or try to tiptoe on to them and evade the trap.

Any comments, bug reports, etc. are welcome!
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Old March 15, 2012, 15:47   #45
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Neat! I should probably fire up v4 one of these days and get some actual playing in...
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Old March 15, 2012, 21:04   #46
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What would people think of removing all repeatable trap detection, and having scrolls of trap detection detect the entire level? (The scrolls would become deeper and rarer in this case.)
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Old March 15, 2012, 22:09   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CunningGabe View Post
What would people think of removing all repeatable trap detection, and having scrolls of trap detection detect the entire level? (The scrolls would become deeper and rarer in this case.)
Sounds excellent. Just do it, and then let the traps themselves be balanced around this change.
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Old March 15, 2012, 22:50   #48
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You could fold Trap Detection into the Enlightenment effect, and let that be the only source of magical trap detection. Only problem then is the Clairvoyance spell / Arkenstone.
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Old March 16, 2012, 00:31   #49
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c. Chest traps are completely gone.
While I'll admit that chest traps were fairly useless, having chests entirely unprotected isn't a good alternative. I hope chests are still locked, ideally locked better that they were pre trap removal.
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Old March 16, 2012, 00:44   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
While I'll admit that chest traps were fairly useless, having chests entirely unprotected isn't a good alternative. I hope chests are still locked, ideally locked better that they were pre trap removal.
Chests are still locked, and they will probably be trapped again once the rest of the trap system settles down and I can figure out how to best integrate them.
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