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Old September 16, 2010, 17:43   #1
Bostock
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{S} Some quiver interface thoughts

There are some things about the {S} interface that are a bit frustrating for me and I figured there's no harm in mentioning them.

My opinion of what is/n't comfortable may be a bit unusual, as I use the game's options for queryless autopickup of all objects (shift-moving to avoid pickup if needed). I'm also a numpadder FWIW.

First off, here's my orgasmic I-have-a-developer-tied-to-a-chair fantasy of how the quiver mechanics could work:
  • Quivering ammo flags it as having-been-quivered.
  • Dropping flagged-as-quivered ammo flags it as no longer having been quivered.
  • Since we know we want it quivered, picking it up - EVEN IF YOU'VE EMPTIED ALL AMMO OF THAT TYPE FROM THE QUIVER - autoquivers it if possible (i.e. if a quiver slot is free and backback space is available for the needed quiver size). The main backpack is skipped, just like when one is wielding from the floor straight to the quiver under the current system.
  • Autoquivering finds a slot just like the current system - quivering to a number if inscribed (and auto-de-inscribing other ammo inscribed to the same number if any is quivered), otherwise algorithmically choosing the slot most likely to annoy the player. (I mean, I *guess* that's how it works at present.)

But adding flags for things is quite possibly infeasible. In that case there are still some things that could save some nerves and are hopefully feasible:
  • Quivering could either always quivers the full stack of ammo (Unangband does this and it works just fine IMO) or at least default to the full stack so you can just hit Enter.
  • Throwing weapons. I almost never want to wield a throwing weapon in my main-weapon slot, and I suspect it's a pretty rare need! I think the query on where to wield the weapon should default to the quiver, i.e. wield to the quiver upon <Enter>.

</rant>

Last edited by Bostock; September 16, 2010 at 18:08.
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Old September 16, 2010, 20:30   #2
camlost
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I'm not sure if you can use any autopickup magic (inscribing =g?) to accomplish what you want in the first section. I'll look into it at some point. Adding the whole stack to the quiver also seems like a fine idea.

Regarding throwing weapons, now that I'm playing a throwing character, I decided to implement that as requested before. It's basically fixed in r98, if you care to compile the source yourself. It will now only ask for ego or artifact weapons, which is the only time there's likely to be an ambiguity.
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Old September 16, 2010, 21:07   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camlost View Post
I'm not sure if you can use any autopickup magic (inscribing =g?) to accomplish what you want in the first section. I'll look into it at some point. Adding the whole stack to the quiver also seems like a fine idea.

Regarding throwing weapons, now that I'm playing a throwing character, I decided to implement that as requested before. It's basically fixed in r98, if you care to compile the source yourself. It will now only ask for ego or artifact weapons, which is the only time there's likely to be an ambiguity.
Ok, I double checked the code and tested. Inscribing ammo with =g will automatically pick it up and put it in the quiver.
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Old September 17, 2010, 17:07   #4
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Originally Posted by camlost View Post
Ok, I double checked the code and tested. Inscribing ammo with =g will automatically pick it up and put it in the quiver.
Hmm. You're right. I could swear I tested this. Maybe I dismissed it because of the one problem it has. That problem is that it doesn't currently bypass the backpack. I run around with room in the quiver but none in the backpack often, and at such times this convenience might as well not be present. Well, that's one incentive to turn off autopickup, I suppose. :-)

Regarding the query for ego/artifact throwing weapons ammo, I considered proposing that as well, as it works pretty well for almost the first half of the game. After that, a good portion of all the throwing ammo worth carrying *is* ego ammo, with just some seeker shots and well-balanced weapons to fill in the gaps. (My experience with a pure thrower who bit the dust at 3500' recently.)

On the other hand if =g were to bypass the backpack, it wouldn't really matter anyway as all this stuff would be getting autoquivered and I wouldn't even need to think about it.
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Old September 17, 2010, 17:12   #5
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Originally Posted by Bostock View Post
[quivering currently] algorithmically choos[es] the slot most likely to annoy the player.
Sorry so snarky BTW. It's just that it seems to do the exact opposite of what I want, and I'm not even sure about that. If I understand correctly, it orders ammo from best to worst, but I'm not sure I understand correctly. In any case, what I really prefer is ordering from worst to best, so that, as I run around plugging away with f1*., my ammo gets better as it starts to run thin. I may be a minority here though!
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Old September 17, 2010, 18:32   #6
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I wanted to do auto-sorting for V at one point, and I agree that worst to best is often more useful (although it's also useful to be able to toggle or override this behavior).
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Old September 17, 2010, 20:19   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostock View Post
Sorry so snarky BTW. It's just that it seems to do the exact opposite of what I want, and I'm not even sure about that. If I understand correctly, it orders ammo from best to worst, but I'm not sure I understand correctly. In any case, what I really prefer is ordering from worst to best, so that, as I run around plugging away with f1*., my ammo gets better as it starts to run thin. I may be a minority here though!

Well, as I agree with your assessment regarding sorting, I'll get around to fixing it. Currently it sorts by tval first (so practice arrows then regular arrows the seeker arrows), followed by from best to worst, which is certainly odd.

Regarding autopickup, I can confirm, and I'll add this and the other piece of information to the outstanding issue. This issue will probably be relatively high priority.

The problem with ego/artifact items is that they're reasonable to wield in the weapon slot or the throwing slot, for instance the *thancs. Unfortunately, there isn't a flag for throwing *only* weapon. If you have a better idea of what to use, let me know, but until then, the ego/artifact metric is the best I can think of.
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Old September 17, 2010, 22:55   #8
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Originally Posted by camlost View Post
The problem with ego/artifact items is that they're reasonable to wield in the weapon slot or the throwing slot, for instance the *thancs. Unfortunately, there isn't a flag for throwing *only* weapon. If you have a better idea of what to use, let me know, but until then, the ego/artifact metric is the best I can think of.
I was thinking of changing the prompt from "y/n" to "Y/n," that's all. But that might annoy people wielding the Thancs as a swap. Then again, the current situation is annoying when using the Thancs as throwing weapons... I don't know.
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Old September 27, 2010, 07:23   #9
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Well, most of these changes are implemented in 1.0.1.107, and it is quite obnoxious when using a *thanc as a swap (I was lucky enough to have that problem with a recent character).
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Old September 27, 2010, 11:56   #10
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Could the Inscriptions system be extended to include an inscription for always wielding a given weapon as throwing/as melee?
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