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Old October 23, 2020, 19:52   #11
Voovus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
I'm not convinced. Why can't a monster call for "daddy"?
I agree with DM.

Thematically, calling for "daddy" makes sense, but it messes with the gameplay.

At least don't let summoners summon other summoners. Exception - Bishibosh.
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Old October 23, 2020, 20:46   #12
DavidMedley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
I'm not convinced. Why can't a monster call for "daddy"?
Possibly, if the frequency is low enough. But if the frequency is such that, for example, you could expect the "baby" to call daddy about once per fight, then the baby is just as dangerous as the daddy, and slightly more so. So why would the baby be lower level than the daddy?
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Old October 23, 2020, 20:49   #13
DavidMedley
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The baby could grant less xp, though, in my above example.
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Old October 23, 2020, 20:54   #14
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Or it could be a summoner cannot summon something that is BOTH >= its native depth AND > the current depth. That would be interesting to add to all monsters at a very rare frequency. Give those hopelessly out of depth monsters a chance to get at-depth help.
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Old October 25, 2020, 00:06   #15
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to go on a different tangent, how many "never fight this" monsters are we up to, now? although i am a d&d style murder hobo, and i CLEAR LEVELS DAMMIT, i understand the gameplay value in having to know when to hold em/ know when to fold 'em. but i think it would be worthwhile to have a clear policy on how many negative-value monsters the game should have.
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Old October 25, 2020, 00:41   #16
mrfy
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Originally Posted by misanthropope View Post
to go on a different tangent, how many "never fight this" monsters are we up to, now? although i am a d&d style murder hobo, and i CLEAR LEVELS DAMMIT, i understand the gameplay value in having to know when to hold em/ know when to fold 'em. but i think it would be worthwhile to have a clear policy on how many negative-value monsters the game should have.
IMO, none. There are a few which are more difficult, but I haven't found any I can't beat one-on-one.

The main question I ask is if it is worth it to kill them. Hydrae can be at lower levels when you need $$ or exp, but not later.
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Old October 25, 2020, 00:58   #17
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All beholders destroy items, drain charges in melee, have lots of HP and drop nothing. Two bigger ones are also omniresistant to elements and summon stuff.

It is possible that a hive-mother is only monster I have never bothered to kill in vanilla. At least I don't remember fighting one ever.
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Old October 25, 2020, 05:44   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misanthropope View Post
to go on a different tangent, how many "never fight this" monsters are we up to, now? although i am a d&d style murder hobo, and i CLEAR LEVELS DAMMIT, i understand the gameplay value in having to know when to hold em/ know when to fold 'em. but i think it would be worthwhile to have a clear policy on how many negative-value monsters the game should have.
Here are the monsters I (almost always) avoid:

1. Balrogs (unless I'm playing a paladin and have fire immunity, or even double fire resist. Then it's open season.)
2. Pretty much every other greater demon except Vrocks.
3. Many headed (typically seven and above) hydras.
4. Hounds of Tindalos.
5. Aether Houdns
6. Time vortices.
7. Beholders
8. Beholder Hive Mothers
9. Druj
10. Grand Master Mystic
11. Reavers
12. Liches of all stripes
13. Qulythugs (unless I'm a paladin)
14. Top tier Dragons (Great Wyrms, Sky Dragons etc, unless I have the appropriate immunity)
15. Impact Hounds

Now, granted I'm a very cautious player (for example, I almost never clear vaults as a non-stealth character until the endgame), and I tend to play standart games, so my character almost always has at least one hole in their higher resistance, and at most one elemental immunity (two if I'm *very* lucky).
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Old October 25, 2020, 09:21   #19
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Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
I'm not convinced. Why can't a monster call for "daddy"?
because daddy can't call daddy.

Oh you wanted a real answer?

This lies rooted in the (D&D) idea that summons FORCE another being into a form of submission; being summoned isn't being called on the phone, it's being forcefully removed from where you are, brought where you are summoned to, and, to some extent, under the control of the summoner. Ergo, only creatures who are substantially weaker than you will submit to the summon.

However, on the practical side, it's because summoners can grow exponentially. One horner reaper can summon another horned reaper, and two horned reapers can summon two more. Then 8, 16 and so forth. You really don't want to stick around for 256 horned reapers, trust me.

And, i agree. I like the idea to be able to deal with a summoner, while, in practice, there are a whole bunch of monsters in V that just don't matter because there is only one solution to them - teleport other. I don't like that, and you shouldn't either.


ALTHOUGH, i am partial to summoners being able to summon "daddy", *occasionally*. That ONE lucky summon. Hey, why not. Just, not the same way that reapers / balrogs do right now.
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Old October 25, 2020, 17:54   #20
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Originally Posted by archolewa View Post
Here are the monsters I (almost always) avoid:
Was there a recent change in 4.2.0 in monster list?
I obviously miss time hounds from the list
In the early levels most of the jellies (especielly ochre jellies) and hummerhorns which come to my mind - i very rarely fight those if i have a choice.
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