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Old May 16, 2018, 10:48   #71
Sky
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yes, i know that, but it's not what i wanted to know. to be honest, i've been asking this question for a while but i'm getting surprisingly vague answers.

my game has an artifact pool of 137 artifacts. we'll consider the depth in a second.

normally, the lower i go in the dungeon, the more likely that i will find an artifact.

Now, from observation, the larger the number of artifacts not spawned, the more likely that drops/spawns will be artifacts. I must assume that the game checks each artifact that has (depth=currentDL) to see if it spawns.

This likely means that if i run through DL127, i will get the biggest number of artifacts in the smallest number of turns.

However, while the above holds true (if i dive faster, i start to see artifacts drop like candy), once i reach a certain depth, nothing seems to spawn or drop. I've spent all of yesterday, i don't know how many hours, on DL97 grinding for drops, killing every type of Wyrm and Pit Fiend and Archlich and i have seen maybe two artifacts, out of 57 still out there.

And the depth spread is well within my current DL (for most).


The same works for uniques. I'm looking for Osse, and since he spawns on DL65~ish, if i find a GV on DL97, he should totally be there if i haven't killed him already - but he's not.

This leads me to think i should maybe go back up to DL65 to find him.

note that artifacts not spawning reinforces the idea that each available depth artifact gets checked for, as more artifacts already found = less checks being made.
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Old May 16, 2018, 11:39   #72
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2. if i'm trying to spawn a specific artifact .. same as above.

So, is deeper always better?
It's not easy to answer. Objects get made like this (simplified):
  1. Try and make a special artifact (rings, amulets, lights)
  2. If not, pick an object kind - anything from object.txt
  3. Apply magic to the item; this will try to make an artifact, but definitely fail if there is no artifact of that object kind
If the artifact is out of depth, it has to pass an extra roll (1 in how out of depth it is) to get created.

So the short answer is the artifact is much less likely to drop out of depth, but once it's in depth it will go through approximately the same process; but because deeper monsters tend to drop better items, on the whole your chance is better the deeper you go.

EDIT: Missed one important thing - some artifacts have a maximum depth, and won't be generated below that.
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Last edited by Nick; May 16, 2018 at 11:58. Reason: Max depth
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Old May 16, 2018, 14:18   #73
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what about uniques then? do they have an "ideal" depth ?


i'm gonna be totally honest now, i'm playing a Blackguard randart game and while i'm already over CL50 and totally capped on everything, there's one artifact that's just too incredible and i'm not gonna stop until i've found it and play my last 2 fights with it.

doesn't matter *how* long i have to look for it. (it's power 356 if that matters; i've already found two dragon armors of 500 and 600 power)

I'm doing this because i strongly suspect this could be an unbeatable record.

edit: THREE dragon armors.
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Old May 16, 2018, 15:07   #74
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Ideally, you kill uniques when you can stomp them without using many consumables.
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Old May 16, 2018, 15:10   #75
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no no no, ideal for finding them. i could probably stomp morgoth right now. Osse has been hiding for quite some time now and i want his head.



see, i should point out that, most people here see Angband as a game where the objective is to kill morgoth. Get to morgoth, and kill him.

To me, Angband like any other RPG, the objective is to see how grossly overpowered you can get; how much gear can you find, how many insane combinations of buffs you can stack up. I value much more a character that gets to basespeed 100 or that can nuke sauron with 1 turn of arrows, rather than one which kills him with a shovel.
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Old May 16, 2018, 15:36   #76
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In terms of the best depth to find something, unique or artifact, again it's a hard question to answer. You want to be at at least the native depth of the thing you want to generate, because otherwise there's an extra check the thing has to pass. Once you've done that, generally as you get deeper into the dungeon more monsters/items get generated, so there are more opportunities to generate the one you want, but also more competition for each "generation slot": more potential monsters/items that can be generated.

My guess is that for killing a specific unique, you should head to that unique's native depth. The theory there being that you just want to clear levels as efficiently as possible until they finally show up. Alternately, preserve Qlzqqlzuup and abuse his unique-summoning spell. For artifacts, you should head to the depth where you can most efficiently generate good items that are of a level within the artifact's depth range. Note that vaults tend to contain exceptionally high-level items and thus may have less of a chance of producing your artifact if its max depth is <100. Being able to spam Enlightenment helps with this of course, though not as much as it did in the days when it didn't do fuzzy detection.

I remember once as a kid learning that longswords were native to dlvl 20, and therefore heading there with a paladin and level-scumming: enter level, cast Clairvoyance, check every '|' on the map (manually, because this was the days before you could 'l'ook at items outside of LOS), and repeat. It was extremely tedious but did eventually net me Ringil. Doubtless I could have gotten it faster if I'd known what Ringil's native depth was.
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Old May 16, 2018, 16:04   #77
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Just clear greater vaults on lvl 97/98. Osse will show up that way, too.
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Old May 16, 2018, 16:29   #78
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Qzlqzzup is a good choice. Just keep teleport him till he gets to a small room. Then wait for him to summon all remaining uniques carry plenty of TO for monsters you don't want.
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Old May 18, 2018, 19:27   #79
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ok lol i just found out that Bloodthirst can drain PERMANENTLY drain my CON (even with sustain). went from 18/100 to 18/70.
let's add that spell to the list of spells i will never cast again.
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Old May 18, 2018, 22:11   #80
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ok lol i just found out that Bloodthirst can drain PERMANENTLY drain my CON (even with sustain). went from 18/100 to 18/70.
let's add that spell to the list of spells i will never cast again.
Yeah, that might be a bit harsh.
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