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Old May 14, 2018, 00:10   #531
Pete Mack
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Why would you give less HP to rogue than rangers? The rogue is a melee class!
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Old May 14, 2018, 01:38   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
Nick -

I think you are trying something that is impossible, that is fitting in characters with better melee and worse spell damage than the mage in the early/mid game. This results in grindy melee becoming the best option, both for druid and for necromancer.

As it stands, the mage spell damage is of bare minimum to make it more worthwhile than mage melee. Increasing melee or reducing spellcasting even by a little will result in melee becoming the best option.

If you really want to go that route, you need to either nerf melee over the board or increase mage spell damage, to create a window where druid and necro can sit.
I think the same argument as you make for druids and necromancers can be made for priests. So my answer is the same as it would be for priests - they need to use melee, but supported by spells. So where priests use buffs and healing, druids use monster status and shapechanging. Necros should be using "dark arts"; I agree that their early/mid game spells need some work.

In short, mages are really the only class with spells only as an option; the other "pure casters" will need some melee at at least some point in the game. I like the way you have been talking recently about phases of the game for different classes - I hope that the new classes are converging to having sensible play patterns.

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Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
Where is encumbrance determined then? I always thought it was part of the class.txt file. What determines that "the weight of your armour encumbers your movement"? Is it just strength? I always thought the warrior was not encumbered as quickly as the mage, even with equivalent strengths, and always thought it had to do with the min-weight value.
Encumbrance for reducing mana is determined by the "spell weight" in the magic line in class.txt; weight effects on speed depend only on strength.

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Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
By the way, any thoughts about my remaining foreseen light malus issues expressed up-thread in my ante-penultimate post?
I think RLight would be the way to go if we were doing a fix, although I also kind of like the idea that necros just need to always consider light as in issue (at least until they get strong enough that the failure rate penalty goes away). I think a decision on that should wait for some more playtesting.

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Why would you give less HP to rogue than rangers? The rogue is a melee class!
The rogue was a melee class

Seriously, I think if you want to focus on melee, warrior, paladin or blackguard are the classes to play. Ranger and rogue both have decent melee, but rely also on stealth other things (archery and "woodcraft" for rangers, theft and trickery for rogues). As to which gets more HP - I think it's kind of a toss-up.
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Old May 14, 2018, 02:56   #533
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Well, the priest gets glorious orb which is good enough to make me replace a damage weapon with a wisdom one to maximize its effectiveness. If it isnt already, the druids combat shape can perceivably fill a similar role, but what in the arsenal of the necromancer have you intended to be that phase-defining ability ?

Also, I find the necromancer lacking in late game power. Vampire shape is not very safe to use because of the inbuild hp loss; more often than not ive gotten myself into more trouble than I had been in if I had just used straightforward melee.

I would suggest making the spell more effective that increases damage on low hp foes (forgot the name). Not "a little more damage than before", but rather "take off the last 3 stars of any monster regardless of its hps". That would be something worthwhile to look forward to during the grind, while still requiring the painful routine for Morgoth or other bosses for the first 70%. And I mean stars, so you can immediately see when you should use it.
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Old May 14, 2018, 06:53   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Encumbrance for reducing mana is determined by the "spell weight" in the magic line in class.txt; weight effects on speed depend only on strength.
Doesn't weight also have an affect on to-hit chances? Not only the [-#] of certain armour, but when player gets a message, "The weight of your armour encumbers your movement." Even though speed is unaffected. That's not just spell casters mana, is it? What is that encumbrance, if not on to-hit?
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Old May 14, 2018, 07:07   #535
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Just spellcaster mana.
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Old May 14, 2018, 22:47   #536
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Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
It's interesting to me how things I long believed turn out to be completely wrong.
At least you're not the maintainer...
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Old May 15, 2018, 23:09   #537
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Another slight update, fixing prices for extra shots items. Builds for Windows and macOS are on the build page, source is here.
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Old May 18, 2018, 23:23   #538
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And another update, with some tweaks to blackguards (removing permanent CON drain and shortening confusion as bloodlust side-effects).

Windows and macOS builds are on the build page, source here.
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Old May 20, 2018, 06:57   #539
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Another small update, this time with a bugfix to recharging from Ighalli, plus incorporation of some changes to master. Windows and macOS builds on the build page, source here.
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Old May 20, 2018, 16:29   #540
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Started playing everyone's favourite nature lover the half-orc druid. Stated for melee. Initial thoughts: I had no trouble getting off the bat reaching lvl 2 on the first kill (a cutpure on dlvl 2) using 1 !clw. I was able to sneak up to the !clw stack near them in fox form quite easily but you need to change back to pick it up. Seems fun played as a rogue. The messages were a little confusing as to whether I actually picked it up & I pressed g again thinking it was on the ground

Edit: Lvl 3, 2nd kill - a kobold & reaches stinking cloud. Well the early game works, lets hope for something good later
Edit: Lvl 4, 3rd kill - Grip. Are druids meant to be melee? Seems to resemble an odd version of a rogue. spells from lvl 1 too

Last edited by wobbly; May 20, 2018 at 17:02.
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