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Old January 29, 2022, 20:05   #1
Grotug
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Video Freedback request

Sooo... lately I've been editing my videos quite a bit to make them more entertaining but I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand who has time to watch an hour and a half of not much happening punctuated occasionally by something exciting? I find that when I try to cram more stuff into my videos then each thing that I'm highlighting in the video becomes a little bit diluted. But if I include all the pauses etc, the deliberations, the less important details connecting events etc., then the video ends up being 50 minutes long, like part 3 of The Great Ice Wyrm, which was minimally edited, relatively speaking (as far as cutting; obviously I had fun with music and dramatization and stuff).

I really have no idea if more editing is appreciated to make it more entertaining and lively or less is preferred.

I understand that most people probably have a casual interest in the videos at best and probably prefer something like 3-5 minute long videos with some unlikely or humorous encounter or great find, and aren't going to watch a 20 minute or longer video in its entirety. I still like to upload longer edits for more continuity to the journey and for those looking for longer, more complete videos. People can scrub the longer videos in search of the juicy bits if they want to.

But it would be super helpful to get some specific feedback on my videos (regarding length, editing style [the music, the dramatization]. I guess I'm trying to tailor somewhat to non-angband players as well, to become interested in Angband by making the videos a bit more entertaining than just uploading an entire gaming session unedited or minimally edited with no music (which seems to be what most other Angband videos are). Anyway, any thoughts? Thanks!

I'm watching a video by fizzix right now who I understand (and rightly so) is the gold standard in Angband videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soEEtleECG0 I'm finding his video very watchable. He moves at such a good pace. I'm so much slower when I play compared to him. He's so decisive; so logical and methodical. I'm so indecisive and greedy. It's also interesting how he doesn't get bothered when he loses a staff off the floor he was interested in. I *hate* losing potential loot from plasma hounds!!
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Old January 29, 2022, 21:13   #2
HugoVirtuoso
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What video editing program do you use?
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Old January 29, 2022, 21:45   #3
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I don't really watch gameplay videos but I do like ones I can listen to while doing other things, and in that vein I've found ROGUELove's the most listenable Angband videos so far https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...6VYeybWPdfTvB0 -- his voice is clear and pleasant, he keeps the commentary interesting and natural, there's a minimum of background noise, and it's easy to follow what's happening just based on what he's saying. He doesn't do any obvious editing.
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Old January 29, 2022, 23:32   #4
Grotug
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Thanks Smbhx for the feedback.
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Old February 1, 2022, 22:15   #5
MicroChasm
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I wanted to give my thoughts, I hope they are helpful. I love the idea of people making Angband content-- there isn't enough of it out there and I think it's awesome that you've put in the work to make videos.

Take everything that I have to say with a grain of salt, it's not like I actually know what makes good content. I'm just giving my opinions.

My first impression is that the music is too loud, and the sound effects are much too loud. I do think that music helps, but what is important is that we hear your voice clearly. It's much less important that we hear the same crossbow bolt sound, nice and loud, hundreds of times. Your own voice is fairly laid-back, which is fine, but it makes it even more difficult to hear with the other sounds in the way.

smbhax mentioned ROGUELove, and I also very much enjoy his content. He doesn't do much editing and it works out well for him. His voice is clear and he does good narration. However, I have seen other content creators, like Kruggsmash, do extensive editing on ascii gameplay videos, and it also works out well for them. I think the level of editing just depends on what works for you, and the amount of time that you want to spend.

The next thing is minor, but if you request feedback on your videos-- provide a link! Putting even one small barrier in people's way makes it less likely for them to put in the effort, and it's just more polite to make things easier in any case.

Another thought is that there is a place to post links to new videos on the Roguelike Discord if you would like to advertise a bit-- it's called advertise-community. You could also post on the Angband or Roguelike subreddits. I think it's very difficult for people to find out about niche videos without some help.

As a quick thought, you should credit the music creator in your video description.

Another small point is that if someone goes to your Youtube channel, the front page does not show any Angband videos. It looks like a music content channel. I don't know much about how Youtube channels work, but I think it would help if people find your channel and see the videos right away.

I guess I'm burying the lede a bit here, but the most important thing, I believe, is to tell a story. When content creators narrate their thoughts during a gameplay session, they are telling a story about both the player's experience and the character's journey, and it is a thread that the viewer can follow and get invested in. I think that more context and more information about how the segments relate to one another would help, and more about how you are feeling about what is happening.

Seeing the flashes of gameplay right at the beginning of the video "Highs and lows of Angband Part 1" is a good example-- I understand now that this is a flash-forward to the end of the video, but the first time I watched I had no idea what I was looking at, why I was seeing these segments, how they related to one another, and why I was seeing late in the game and then early in the game right after. I'll admit that maybe I'm just not especially smart, but it was hard for me to follow. Just something like showing a bit of character creation and the first few turns would ground the viewer in the context that they are now seeing a new run, and not a continuation of the opening sequence.

If the demographic is hardcore Angband players then context is less important since they will understand what is happening on screen without explanation, but I think it would be best to not assume that everyone has extensive knowledge of the game. I've played a lot of Sil myself, but only a little Angband, and I don't know how to feel about the monsters you are fighting.

Like smbhax, I also often listen to gameplay videos while doing other things, so it might be good to keep in mind that some people will want to follow the thread of the video through audio, only.

There is a lot to like in your videos. The visual setup is clear. The production quality is good and it makes the videos easier to watch. Your narration shows that you care about the game, which helps the audience care. The end was a nice touch and was pretty funny. The music is pleasant. I think you've got a sense of style, which is the most important thing you can have. The videos just need a more consistent thread of narrative and a few adjustments, and they will be really good.

Those are my honest opinions, hope they help.
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Old February 2, 2022, 11:25   #6
Grotug
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Wow, thank you so much for the very thoughtful and detailed reply, Microchasm! Your feedback is very helpful. I really appreciate it! Ironically, it was out of courtesy that I did not include links to my video because I didn't want the post to seem like a roundabout way to plug my videos which I post on here a lot anyway. I figured people are familiar with them since I post them on here often.

Recently I've been adding an intro to my videos; an animation of the Angband logo as it were. With the latest video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YSqwIJq-6o I put a little teaser before the intro to whet the appetite as it were. I feel like this is pretty standard practice on youtube videos, but I like your suggestion about showing a brief character creation so it's really clear that after the intro is the start of the game.

I've been thinking of doing a more explanatory video but mostly the purpose of my videos are for those familiar with the game; to share with others interesting things that happen in my games and to show some of the brazen things I attempt and have gotten away with. I've sort of shied away from a full blown how to play video as it would involve a lot of talking and things would happen very slowly due to all the explaining. Personally, when I search for let's play videos I just want to see what the game is like without 20 minutes introduction of it like so many videos do. So I thought it might be refreshing to have videos that just jump right into the action. Thanks again for your constructive feedback!
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Last edited by Grotug; February 2, 2022 at 20:40.
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Old February 2, 2022, 16:14   #7
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What I'd like to see in a commentary made for slightly advanced players, is the player to stop at potential one-shot situation and explain to a viewer, how for example one failed Teleport Other, can kill the character the next turn here. Or how on the other side of the map, there are 11 time hounds on an open area, so teleporting self isn't safe anymore. Detecting when you can be one-shot in the next turn, is the key to endgame success, as all veterans know.

I've checked one or two of your videos and they were not bad at all. If you put in some music, make sure it's not loud if you're narrating.

Oh, and I couldn't open your latest video in this thread. Doesn't seem to work.
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Old February 2, 2022, 20:41   #8
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Thanks Sphara, yes, I agree I should do that. Url fixed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YSqwIJq-6o
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Old February 3, 2022, 20:08   #9
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Grotug-- That all makes sense, I guess I'm kind of stepping into the situation without really knowing the background. I'll definitely check out more of your content, and I've subscribed to the channel.

I am working on making some 'band content myself, and I'm just in this headspace of thinking about gameplay content and what I want to do with it personally.

Keep it up, I hope it works out well for you.
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Old February 8, 2022, 02:57   #10
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Your videos are very crisp and clear visually (not always the case with 'band videos on youtube) but I agree with the above replies that your voice needs to be louder than the music & sound. The quality of your voice recording is fine, when there isn't competing sound you are clear enough, but sometimes the music overwhelms your voice or makes it hard to understand.

Your intro is awesome and very distinctive.

I do prefer 20-30 minute LP videos over "shorts". Sessions can make good videos if your narration/commentary is entertaining enough. What I personally can't watch is 'band videos with no speaking, just music. Narration connects the viewer to the player, helps us identify with the @ in the video and raises the stakes. I am watching "The Great Ice Wyrm Part 3" and I like the amount of commentary there, though the music is a bit loud at some points and makes it hard to understand.

Last edited by EpicMan; February 8, 2022 at 03:02. Reason: Clarified last paragraph was a compliment not a criticism
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