I'm back!

hyperdex · December 28, 2021, 17:23

It seems like every few years I get the Angband bug again. Knowing that I would have a few days off for the holidays, I downloaded 4.2.3, applied my (informational) patch, created a warrior, and started playing. I managed to get one to level 50 before YASDing to a Great Storm Wyrm while lacking sound resistance, and have another crusing through stat gain at the moment. I have a few observations/questions...

First, well done to the team! I really enjoy the tweaks that have been made to make the game more fun. I love the little speed tweaks that have made formerly uninteresting artifacts worthy of consideration. I like the rune system for identification.

I also would like to comment upon just how easy it was to compile for a mac -- literally a single command (from the right directory). I don't know what it took to get it to this point, but kudos!

I was mildly disappointed to see that the checkerboard vaults apparently are no more. I (begrudgingly) agree with the decision. With reliable speed and TOther, GCVs are completely unbalanced. I exploited this during my previous wins, and now I cannot.

Here are some questions...

With the new rune system, is the only way to identify magic devices/consumables to use them properly or to sell them in town? I'm just wondering if I am missing something. With that in mind have the really bad potions (Death, *Detonations*, I think) been removed so that quaffing an unidentified potion is not going to be an instadeath as long as the player is in a safe-ish place? I have taken to reading all new scrolls on sight -- aside from the occasional premature Deep Descent it seems to be working for me.

I had the following situation. At some point I noticed a Star on the ground but had to leave the level without actually stepping on it or getting it. The Star did not show up in my known artifacts, nor did it ever show up again in that game, but later I did get the Arkenstone. Was the Star lost or would it (eventually) have shown up again?

What is the best way of using the stat gain/loss potions? If one of my stats is lagging behind the others I will quaff that stat's potion to even things out, and once one or more stats are maxxed and one has extra gain potions for that stat, then the gain/loss potions are at worst a break even and have a decent (at least 1/4) chance of being convertable into a stat gain. Does anyone here have any advice?

Finally, I tend to start with warriors as they are relatively easy to get pretty deep. It's fun to see the new items/features/monsters! What are some good/fun spell casters that I should try next? I am eager to see the new magic system in use.

Dave

hyperdex · December 28, 2021, 17:53

One more observation. I actually love playing with sound! I had never compiled with sound before, but it really adds quite a bit to the atmosphere!

Raerick · December 28, 2021, 18:30

Yes you can only identify consumables by use or selling/giving to a shop. There are no absolutely deadly consumables. The worst are; a temporary stat drain (mushroom of debility), summon monsters/undead (scroll or staff version), potion of salt water (if you have no immediate food options), or temporary ailment (blindness, slow, poison, etc.) I definitely wouldn't read or use un-IDed scrolls staves without being on stairs until the summoning versions have been identified (though staves of summoning don't seem to be an immediate worry with a new game.)

Whether undiscovered artifacts are gone or not is a birth option, but I think if you stood over the thing it might be gone regardless. Not sure though.

There are other potions that increase a stat without a swap and they start coming into depth about 10 levels deeper from the swap versions. I tend to drink the swaps until they are identified, take a chance on a couple of the ones I need after identification, and then just set them to ignore when the better ones come into depth. Really the game is usually generous enough that you can have all stats internally maxed (barring what is needed by equipment) by DL 80. It can be a bit trickier if you play with no recall and forced descent, but not by much. Playing ironman can make other consumables be an issue though unless you have cold/fire/acid immunity or take to stashing the end game consumables in safe places before picking them up prior to leaving the floor (don't do this if falling through a trap door or being hit with teleport level are realistic scenarios though.)

I like Druids. I killed Morgoth with the first Druid I tried (4.2.3) The transformation spells were only marginally useful for me (pukleman and eagleform in particular being useful), but they have decent damage spells and useful utility spells. My first few attempts at Necromancer ended in early deaths, so I haven't given them enough of a spin to comment.

hyperdex · December 28, 2021, 20:11

I am definitely playing with birth_lose_arts=no and I never stepped on the Star thus identifying it. I had used a !Enlightenment on the level and it appeared as an unidentified Star on my object list. I found the fact that it never appeared again but the Arkenstone did as suggestive but not conclusive. (I vaguely recall something about the artifact lights being generated in order, but I could easily be mistaken.)

backwardsEric · December 28, 2021, 20:45

A permanently lost artifact is supposed to get an entry in the player's history: you can check that in game with '~' followed by 'r'; the history is also included when you do a character dump to a file from the character sheet.

Pete Mack · December 28, 2021, 21:42

Oh man--checkerboard vault will really be missed. Never mind that it is unbalanced: it always gjves a moment of real excitement to see one.

Nick · December 28, 2021, 21:54

Checkerboard vaults are still there - I actually don't think any vault has ever been removed, but lots have been added.

I would recommend at least trying the Necromancer (avoid lit squares) and Blackguard (safer to attack than to rest).

hyperdex · December 28, 2021, 23:02

I'm sorry -- I was looking for a name like "Checkerboard" and didn't realize that they are simply called "Huge'. My bad.

(I am glad they are still around for now.)

Bogatyr · December 30, 2021, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Checkerboard vaults are still there - I actually don't think any vault has ever been removed, but lots have been added.

I would recommend at least trying the Necromancer (avoid lit squares) and Blackguard (safer to attack than to rest).

Haven't groked Blackguard yet. Tried one, fought as much as I could as often as I could without resting, but always had 0 mana...

Pete Mack · December 30, 2021, 14:52

Getting mana is easy: just pick a fight with someone weaker. Blackguard uses spells often, to aggravate awake monsters, and to stun in battle. He also uses spells to get more than one blow starting CL 20. (Though Whirlwind attack agajnst a single enemy does seem pretty silly.)

December 28, 2021, 17:23	#1
hyperdex Scout Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 44	I'm back! It seems like every few years I get the Angband bug again. Knowing that I would have a few days off for the holidays, I downloaded 4.2.3, applied my (informational) patch, created a warrior, and started playing. I managed to get one to level 50 before YASDing to a Great Storm Wyrm while lacking sound resistance, and have another crusing through stat gain at the moment. I have a few observations/questions... First, well done to the team! I really enjoy the tweaks that have been made to make the game more fun. I love the little speed tweaks that have made formerly uninteresting artifacts worthy of consideration. I like the rune system for identification. I also would like to comment upon just how easy it was to compile for a mac -- literally a single command (from the right directory). I don't know what it took to get it to this point, but kudos! I was mildly disappointed to see that the checkerboard vaults apparently are no more. I (begrudgingly) agree with the decision. With reliable speed and TOther, GCVs are completely unbalanced. I exploited this during my previous wins, and now I cannot. Here are some questions... With the new rune system, is the only way to identify magic devices/consumables to use them properly or to sell them in town? I'm just wondering if I am missing something. With that in mind have the really bad potions (Death, Detonations, I think) been removed so that quaffing an unidentified potion is not going to be an instadeath as long as the player is in a safe-ish place? I have taken to reading all new scrolls on sight -- aside from the occasional premature Deep Descent it seems to be working for me. I had the following situation. At some point I noticed a Star on the ground but had to leave the level without actually stepping on it or getting it. The Star did not show up in my known artifacts, nor did it ever show up again in that game, but later I did get the Arkenstone. Was the Star lost or would it (eventually) have shown up again? What is the best way of using the stat gain/loss potions? If one of my stats is lagging behind the others I will quaff that stat's potion to even things out, and once one or more stats are maxxed and one has extra gain potions for that stat, then the gain/loss potions are at worst a break even and have a decent (at least 1/4) chance of being convertable into a stat gain. Does anyone here have any advice? Finally, I tend to start with warriors as they are relatively easy to get pretty deep. It's fun to see the new items/features/monsters! What are some good/fun spell casters that I should try next? I am eager to see the new magic system in use. Dave

December 28, 2021, 21:54	#7
Nick Vanilla maintainer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Canberra, Australia Age: 57 Posts: 9,463 Donated: $60	Checkerboard vaults are still there - I actually don't think any vault has ever been removed, but lots have been added. I would recommend at least trying the Necromancer (avoid lit squares) and Blackguard (safer to attack than to rest). __________________ One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

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December 28, 2021, 17:53	#2
hyperdex Scout Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 44	One more observation. I actually love playing with sound! I had never compiled with sound before, but it really adds quite a bit to the atmosphere!

December 28, 2021, 18:30	#3
Raerick Scout Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 48	Yes you can only identify consumables by use or selling/giving to a shop. There are no absolutely deadly consumables. The worst are; a temporary stat drain (mushroom of debility), summon monsters/undead (scroll or staff version), potion of salt water (if you have no immediate food options), or temporary ailment (blindness, slow, poison, etc.) I definitely wouldn't read or use un-IDed scrolls staves without being on stairs until the summoning versions have been identified (though staves of summoning don't seem to be an immediate worry with a new game.) Whether undiscovered artifacts are gone or not is a birth option, but I think if you stood over the thing it might be gone regardless. Not sure though. There are other potions that increase a stat without a swap and they start coming into depth about 10 levels deeper from the swap versions. I tend to drink the swaps until they are identified, take a chance on a couple of the ones I need after identification, and then just set them to ignore when the better ones come into depth. Really the game is usually generous enough that you can have all stats internally maxed (barring what is needed by equipment) by DL 80. It can be a bit trickier if you play with no recall and forced descent, but not by much. Playing ironman can make other consumables be an issue though unless you have cold/fire/acid immunity or take to stashing the end game consumables in safe places before picking them up prior to leaving the floor (don't do this if falling through a trap door or being hit with teleport level are realistic scenarios though.) I like Druids. I killed Morgoth with the first Druid I tried (4.2.3) The transformation spells were only marginally useful for me (pukleman and eagleform in particular being useful), but they have decent damage spells and useful utility spells. My first few attempts at Necromancer ended in early deaths, so I haven't given them enough of a spin to comment.

December 28, 2021, 20:11	#4
hyperdex Scout Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 44	I am definitely playing with birth_lose_arts=no and I never stepped on the Star thus identifying it. I had used a !Enlightenment on the level and it appeared as an unidentified Star on my object list. I found the fact that it never appeared again but the Arkenstone did as suggestive but not conclusive. (I vaguely recall something about the artifact lights being generated in order, but I could easily be mistaken.)

December 28, 2021, 20:45	#5
backwardsEric Swordsman Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 340	A permanently lost artifact is supposed to get an entry in the player's history: you can check that in game with '~' followed by 'r'; the history is also included when you do a character dump to a file from the character sheet.

December 28, 2021, 21:42	#6
Pete Mack Prophet Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 6,725 Donated: $40	Oh man--checkerboard vault will really be missed. Never mind that it is unbalanced: it always gjves a moment of real excitement to see one.

December 28, 2021, 23:02	#8
hyperdex Scout Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 44	I'm sorry -- I was looking for a name like "Checkerboard" and didn't realize that they are simply called "Huge'. My bad. (I am glad they are still around for now.)

December 30, 2021, 14:52	#10
Pete Mack Prophet Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 6,725 Donated: $40	Getting mana is easy: just pick a fight with someone weaker. Blackguard uses spells often, to aggravate awake monsters, and to stun in battle. He also uses spells to get more than one blow starting CL 20. (Though Whirlwind attack agajnst a single enemy does seem pretty silly.)

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