Are autoexplore and autofight (ala DCSS) worth it in V to reduce early game tedium?

[tangar]

Originally Posted by Gwarl

But how is this different from being able to target and fire an arrow/spell in a single keypress?

you see enemy - you fight to it. then you use your 'legs' and move towards next spot, investigation other rooms and corridors, making decisions where to put your next step. you have the same actions which you will have in real-life in such situation. when you press the button to move toward next enemy automatically with autoexploring half of the level - it's dull and break atmosphere of the game, world integrity, narrative... it's kinda give feeling of playing in 'wizard' (cheat) mode.

[Gwarl]

I have to disagree. When I see a pack of wolves who aren't going to hurt me with a mage I'm like 'cool I press one key and they all die', with a warrior it's like 'oh boy this again' despite it being even less threatening to the @. To the point where I'll even use a bow or zap them with a hybrid simply because that's more automatic.

[tangar]

I speak about auto-exploration thingy, not about stuff which makes combat faster.

Considering latter, the thing is that in Tangaria (or other V multiplayer variants) there is already auto-retalliation option as gameplay goes in semi-turn-based mode (and you can control the time - slow it down or make it faster).. so you come close to monster with melee character - you attack it automatically with basic melee blows. Also there is fire-till-kill option which allows you to make attacks (including shooting or magic spells) until enemy dies.

Maybe such instruments should be ported and adapted to V?

[Zorbus]

I used to really be against autoexplore, and like many others, thought that if it is needed, then there's something wrong with the game's level generator.

I've since then completely changed my mind on autoexplore, but still can't stand DCSS and especially its level generators. But you can definitely benefit from autoexplore on almost any kind of maps.

In games where you tend to explore the dungeon level fully, autoexplore is great for getting to those last unexplored areas, even if you don't use it as much when the level is mostly unexplored and populated.

One other QoL feature that autoexplore also has is that it picks autopickable items.

One alternative to continuous autoexplore is what I call "burst" autoexplore, where pressing the explore-key takes you only to nearest unexplored tile or nearest item to autopick. Feels like you are more in control that in continuous autoexplore.

I've experienced with these things and other QoL-stuff a lot in my game Zorbus. Compared to most other roguelikes, the levels are biggish (up to 128x128 tiles), and very dense with stuff, but still, (burst) autoexplore is very convenient to have. There's also continuous autoexplore if that's what you want.

http://www.zorbus.net

Example dungeon maps to showcase the density: http://www.zorbus.net/dungeon.html

I also have a command for approach & melee attack. You can also use it just approaching a fleeing enemy to narrow the distance, and then make a ranged attack. The target creature is automatically set, and is marked with a symbol on its tile.

These tutorial images show the command set and the symbols for melee/ranged/talent (spell) targets:
http://www.zorbus.net/tutorial/index.html

If I were a Angband dev, I would probably experiment with a very basic burst autoexplore, just to try out how it would feel. It would be a big change to the game, but still smaller than making the levels smaller and more dense with content?

[tom]

Why not start every character with 2 deep descent scrolls? That would also fix an issue (for me) that identifying the first deep descent scroll you find forces you to skip part of the early game, and in some race/class combos I don't want to.

[Estie]

Originally Posted by tom

Why not start every character with 2 deep descent scrolls? That would also fix an issue (for me) that identifying the first deep descent scroll you find forces you to skip part of the early game, and in some race/class combos I don't want to.

I like this.

[Pete Mack]

Or set skip-level to 3. (This is a lot of fun)

[smbhax]

I actually like the thrill of accidentally deep descending from that first scroll, then fighting my way back up--although I can see how this would be a problem if your settings don't permit that.

Can level skip be changed on the fly?

About autocombat, I know I'm weird, but I just like @-bumping things. ^ _^ It's this uniquely roguelike thing that's just fun to do in its own right, for me.

[tangar]

Originally Posted by tom

Why not start every character with 2 deep descent scrolls? That would also fix an issue (for me) that identifying the first deep descent scroll you find forces you to skip part of the early game, and in some race/class combos I don't want to.

Just open file lib/class.txt and add there 2 of such scrolls, if you wish so.. But it's kinda cheating IMHO (or rather playing a variantish V).

Originally Posted by tom

That would also fix an issue (for me) that identifying the first deep descent scroll you find forces you to skip part of the early game, and in some race/class combos I don't want to.

It's not an issue, but an adventure. Sometimes pretty dangerous. It's not about skipping part of early game, but about surviving, especially with some 'paper' classes. You can always go back if you wish play on shallow lvls

[emar]

Originally Posted by Zorbus

One alternative to continuous autoexplore is what I call "burst" autoexplore, where pressing the explore-key takes you only to nearest unexplored tile or nearest item to autopick. Feels like you are more in control that in continuous autoexplore.

This is actually how I implemented it. Angband guts talk: I created a new CMD_EXPLORE command that relies on the CMD_PATHFIND command to travel to the nearest unknown grid adjacent to a floor. It's effectively the same behavior as clicking with the mouse on an unknown tile, but less random.

Item handling still needs to be done, but it's a massive improvement as is. Once you get done clearing a known area of the dungeon, it'll fast travel you to anywhere you haven't touched. Currently, if an item or trap is in the way, it fails gracefully if silently. It doesn't open doors, so tactically you're not being thrown into dramatically new situations. It doesn't work if there are visible monsters, or if your mind or vision is compromised. Edge cases still need to be handled, but what's there is functional.

I'm finding it pretty balanced. Autofight is pretty great and is also a good step towards dealing with replacing the targeting code which is still directly invoked.