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Old January 12, 2016, 11:58   #21
Nick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilkau View Post
1. Anyone know offhand what colors are used in the alternate status display (ie. what you get when you press h on the C screen)? I've seen green, white, and grey so far. Hoping that there is some opportunity to safely do the 'alternating colors' thing for more readability. Aside from that, I don't see any other improvement that could be made to the alt status screen.
Aside from the w/W alternation between columns, there's B (an item with that property, as mentioned), G (only in the last column, representing a temporary property) and g (representing an immunity, and only relevant in the top 4 rows on the left panel).

Here's a more filled out example:


My feeling is that the column alternation is more important than row here, because which column is harder to pick.

For the inventory (and menus in general) - would a slightly different background shade (to both the regular black and the shaded sidebar) work?
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Old January 12, 2016, 13:56   #22
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For resistances, there is some red-yellow-green color-coding in the monster list ("breathes X" is in red if you don't resist X, or something similar -- I never knew the exact criterion). Would it make sense to use the same color scheme here?

Maybe we can differentiate based on the resistances: no rCold (after a certain level) or no FA could be in big flashy red, but lack of nether resistance is less important and can be another color.
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Old January 12, 2016, 22:44   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Aside from the w/W alternation between columns, there's B (an item with that property, as mentioned), G (only in the last column, representing a temporary property) and g (representing an immunity, and only relevant in the top 4 rows on the left panel).

Here's a more filled out example:


My feeling is that the column alternation is more important than row here, because which column is harder to pick.

For the inventory (and menus in general) - would a slightly different background shade (to both the regular black and the shaded sidebar) work?
Not really what you're asking about in this thread, but I'd love to be on this screen and able to scroll through each equipped item, and have it either highlight the relevant columns and/ or highlight the resistance/bonus provided by that gear. Also have it display the name of the item.

alternating column brightness/color are just making the best of a bad job.

e: eventually, possibly an option to scroll left/right to get to rings, then scroll up/down to substitute other rings in your inventory, and, with a confirm, switch equipment from this screen.
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Old January 13, 2016, 01:30   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fph View Post
For resistances, there is some red-yellow-green color-coding in the monster list ("breathes X" is in red if you don't resist X, or something similar -- I never knew the exact criterion). Would it make sense to use the same color scheme here?

Maybe we can differentiate based on the resistances: no rCold (after a certain level) or no FA could be in big flashy red, but lack of nether resistance is less important and can be another color.
I'm okay with the current color scheme of white if you don't have it and blue if you do (and green for special cases). Matching the resist colors with the monster memory would be okay, too, as long as it doesn't lead to the screen screaming at me in red because I don't care about slow digestion or feather falling.

Imposing values for various resists/properties sounds like a bad idea, though.
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Old January 13, 2016, 17:44   #25
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Just want to chime in that I think a lot of the changes suggested here are fantastic. I absolutely approve of changing the background of the non-playing regions, and that's probably the change I like the best.
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Old January 14, 2016, 09:03   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Aside from the w/W alternation between columns, there's B (an item with that property, as mentioned), G (only in the last column, representing a temporary property) and g (representing an immunity, and only relevant in the top 4 rows on the left panel).

Here's a more filled out example:


My feeling is that the column alternation is more important than row here, because which column is harder to pick.

For the inventory (and menus in general) - would a slightly different background shade (to both the regular black and the shaded sidebar) work?
.. Yes? I have to say I'm not a great fan of that particular solution though. Smaller palettes are better IMO, and it does raise the question of whether it would be doable in curses interface.

One sort of .. miscellaneous thought I've been kicking around (and the reason I linked Solarized palette in the OP) was to overall rebalance the entire palette along the lines of the idea from Solarized : make each color have a unique level of perceptual brightness. This would maximize the amount of usable 'X on Y' combos, as well as improving distinctness for, at least, people with colorblindness. That's more of a 'polishing' step though.. I wouldn't want to do it until the primary adjustments to the palette are finalized.

Anyway, let me make this counterproposal, using D:



Note that this still uses the 'drop the species+title+class display back in brightness during inventory actions' idea, as you have not specifically commented on whether that's doable. Also would require Takkaria's idea of (to some extent) supporting a wider range of BG colors.

Whatever coloring scheme we arrive at for the alt stats page, I strongly agree with Bowman : it should be completely consistent, not dependent on an internal 'importance rating'.
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Old January 14, 2016, 10:49   #27
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Originally Posted by Bowman View Post
I'm okay with the current color scheme of white if you don't have it and blue if you do (and green for special cases). Matching the resist colors with the monster memory would be okay, too, as long as it doesn't lead to the screen screaming at me in red because I don't care about slow digestion or feather falling.

Imposing values for various resists/properties sounds like a bad idea, though.
I understand, this makes sense.

In part, my proposal started from the fact that some of the important attributes are a bit hidden in the columns now. For instance, free action and speed are in unremarkable positions in the middle of their columns. I know that importance is relative, but this seems like a clear-cut case.
So, a different proposal to fix this issue: let us change the order of the attributes in the columns:

* first column: ok as it is.
* second column: move pBlnd/pConf/pFear/pStun to the top.
* third column: move FA to the top
* fourth column: move speed to the top, and infravision/tunnelling close to the bottom (light as the very last place is fine for me).
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Last edited by fph; January 14, 2016 at 13:15.
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Old January 14, 2016, 12:32   #28
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Colours per dungeon level

Personally I would like this screen to have the current green for immunity, and blue for single cover. Then you can have yellow for double cover and red for no cover AND being on a level where this is dangerous. That leave white for not covered and not dangerous. Most people who have played the game for a while learn the levels where particular resistances should be covered but even then miss it, so what chance do beginners have!
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Old January 14, 2016, 13:50   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilkau View Post
Anyway, let me make this counterproposal, using D:

Personally I find this pretty difficult to read and visually distracting. The list item labels are already pretty well marked without needing an extra background colour change, and the grays of 'for Quiver' etc are too close to the background colour for comfort.
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Old January 14, 2016, 16:34   #30
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Originally Posted by mixer View Post
Personally I would like this screen to have the current green for immunity, and blue for single cover. Then you can have yellow for double cover and red for no cover AND being on a level where this is dangerous. That leave white for not covered and not dangerous. Most people who have played the game for a while learn the levels where particular resistances should be covered but even then miss it, so what chance do beginners have!
The problem that I have with this is what is the criteria for what is important enough to be "dangerous" to miss? As it is now, everything is shown equally and left up to the player to prioritize. If I die because I lacked rPois and a AMHD breathed on me, then okay, I learn that I should have that resist to face that enemy. If instead, rPois is white until dl40 (for example) and I die because of an out-of-depth drolem in a vault on dl37, it'd be a lot more frustrating because the game was explicitly telling me not to care about a resist that actually was important. Similarly for dying on dl1 from a floating eye paralyzing in a room with other enemies before free action was "important", or getting knocked out by vibration hounds before rSound/pStun was "important", etc.

Also, just because something isn't generally considered very important (e.g. rShards) doesn't mean that it isn't still useful in certain situations (e.g. gelugons).

Not to mention that having importance ratings will encourage inexperienced players to grind until they have those modifiers.

Reorganizing the lists to have the more "survival critical" attributes at the top like fph suggested sounds good.
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