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Old March 3, 2009, 02:29   #1
Donald Jonker
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Feature request: display char creation blows as if wielding whip

At the risk of further diluting Mr. Blay's ever increasing list..

It would be nice if the blows/round displayed at character creation responded as if the char were wielding a whip - thus obviating the need for trial and error with various combinations of STR and DEX to yield that extra blow. After nearly a year of play I still have to mess around suiciding characters to figure out how to optimize different class/race combos.

This would be useful for the variants as well. As far as I know, the only one that does it is sCthangband.
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Old March 3, 2009, 04:35   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Jonker View Post
It would be nice if the blows/round displayed at character creation responded as if the char were wielding a whip - thus obviating the need for trial and error with various combinations of STR and DEX to yield that extra blow. After nearly a year of play I still have to mess around suiciding characters to figure out how to optimize different class/race combos.
This seems to me to be curing a symptom of the problem that characters are not given the optimal (buyable) starting weapon. What is needed is a change to either the starting weapon or the combat system.
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Old March 3, 2009, 07:42   #3
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Eddie got this right. His code has the info for each weapon (obtained via 'I'nspecting it or via chardump) include the requirements for the next blow. So:

You currently get X blows per round with each weapon. With an additional +Y STR you would get X+1 blows. With an additional +Z DEX you would get X+1 blows.

Until the combat system is revised, I reckon that's the best solution.
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Old March 3, 2009, 09:52   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Eddie got this right. His code has the info for each weapon (obtained via 'I'nspecting it or via chardump) include the requirements for the next blow. So:

You currently get X blows per round with each weapon. With an additional +Y STR you would get X+1 blows. With an additional +Z DEX you would get X+1 blows.

Until the combat system is revised, I reckon that's the best solution.
That sounds good to me. I would make it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
F033 0 "Import 'extra blow with +? STR or +? DEX' code from Eddie

Eddie got this right. His code has the info for each weapon (obtained via 'I'nspecting it or via chardump) include the requirements for the next blow. So:

You currently get X blows per round with each weapon. With an additional +Y STR you would get X+1 blows. With an additional +Z DEX you would get X+1 blows.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me know if you want it added to the pool
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Old March 3, 2009, 10:42   #5
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I think Donald's point is that the information is needed on character creation, so before character dumps, 'I' etc are available. The problem is (for example) warriors starting with a broad sword, and so not being able to work out what STR/DEX combination the need to get maximum blows with a lighter weapon.

My point is that this means either the starting weapon is wrong, or (if you believe warriors should start with a broad sword) changes to combat are needed. Unless, of course, you think that there is a point to starting with a non-optimal weapon.
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Old March 3, 2009, 16:14   #6
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Unless, of course, you think that there is a point to starting with a non-optimal weapon.
It has a point when shopping is disabled.
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Old March 3, 2009, 16:37   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
You currently get X blows per round with each weapon. With an additional +Y STR you would get X+1 blows. With an additional +Z DEX you would get X+1 blows.

Until the combat system is revised, I reckon that's the best solution.
It is still not complete. Sometimes a westernesse(+2) weapon will give an extra blow even though +2 to one stat or the other is not enough. OTOH, anything complete seems to produce overly clunky descriptions, so I settled for the above. If the westernesse is on sale at a store, at least you see the blows if you look at it.
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Old March 3, 2009, 17:49   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I think Donald's point is that the information is needed on character creation, so before character dumps, 'I' etc are available. The problem is (for example) warriors starting with a broad sword, and so not being able to work out what STR/DEX combination the need to get maximum blows with a lighter weapon.
Exactly - I was thinking of the blows/round display during character creation when distributing stat points. Then you wouldn't need to restart chars upon being disappointed when inspecting gear at the weaponsmith.

Of course, Eddie's improvement to inspection UI is lovely as well, and would be a welcome addition.

Quote:
My point is that this means either the starting weapon is wrong, or (if you believe warriors should start with a broad sword) changes to combat are needed. Unless, of course, you think that there is a point to starting with a non-optimal weapon.
Starting chars out with lighter weapons is also ideal, but I still think the whip should be the point of reference, independent of whether a class begins with a whip, dagger, main gauche, or rapier, since it's the lightest. I've never run into a situation where you can get extra blows with a whip but not with a dagger or main gauche, but it's probably possible. The extra blows are much more important than which particular weapon you achieve them with. And for the sake of flavor, I don't think it would be a good idea to start everyone out with a whip - you always buy one on the cheap anyway.
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Old March 3, 2009, 19:24   #9
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(A bit off topic, but) I'm thinking that starting weapons and/or the way blows are calculated should be changed eventually. The only people who don't sell their board swords at the start of the game are brand new players that don't know any better - and the brand new players are the people who most need help at the start of the game.

But yes, knowing how many blows you get for a good starting weapon would be nice at the char creation screen.
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Old March 3, 2009, 20:49   #10
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I'm thinking that starting weapons and/or the way blows are calculated should be changed eventually. The only people who don't sell their board swords at the start of the game are brand new players that don't know any better - and the brand new players are the people who most need help at the start of the game.
Well, I tried to nudge someone else into saying it, but I think this is the closest I'm going to get.

The obvious solution is O combat.

*ducks*
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