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Old August 18, 2013, 10:12   #1
eMeM
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No-sell

Why this stupid recommended and highly advertised no-sell option is now a default choice? Am I the only one who doesn't like it?

Money is not that important in Angband. Don't need special option to stop carrying useless junk to town level if you doesn't want to. That's what I do when I get rich, by then I can throw away useless artifacts. Good and average items can be squelched from the start of the game. When I don't have gold I'm not forced to sell. I don't have to recall, I can stay in dungeon as long as I want to and find everything I need if for some reason I can't afford it for money. At least sometimes junk items get cool use when you can sell them. Warrior is happy to find deep spell book early, it will allow him to buy stat potions from black market. I think it's fun part of the game but I read in every other thread that's annoying.

Again Am I the only one to think that now you are taking down that fun part by default?
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Old August 18, 2013, 10:18   #2
kaypy
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No, which is why its an option.

But you seem to be in the minority, which is why the default is the other way.
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Old August 18, 2013, 12:11   #3
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eMeM View Post
Why this stupid recommended and highly advertised no-sell option is now a default choice? Am I the only one who doesn't like it?
Probably not, but I think you are in minority. For on-off type setting it is better to go with majority than minority.

You can turn selling back on if you like, so that's not a big deal.
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Old August 18, 2013, 12:15   #4
Nomad
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I definitely prefer selling games. Some of the most fun situations I've got into have been when I see something cool in the shops early on and realise I can just afford to buy it if I sell almost everything else my character has. I don't really tend to lug junk back to the town just to sell, aside from the odd OOD spellbook; what I like are the tactical decisions involved in deciding whether to sell useful items that would ordinarily be worth keeping so I can buy something else I really want. No-selling removes that option of sacrificing good items to buy other things, so it makes the town game much less interesting for me.

No-selling as default seems pretty unintuitive to me, especially for new players, but it seems most people here prefer it that way.
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Old August 18, 2013, 14:53   #5
quarague
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I think a lot of people prefer no sell (me at least) because it tends to make the game easier. With no sell you get significantly higher gold drops in the dungeon, meaning you are just as wealthly as in a sell game but without the hassle to bring stuff back to town. It also greatly reduces variance in your wealth, in a sell game you might an OOD spell book and be rich early on but most often you don't, with no sell you are fairly well off every game.
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Old August 18, 2013, 16:35   #6
Derakon
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The option to sell items isn't going away anytime soon if ever. So don't worry that you're being discriminated against or anything; you'll still be able to play the way you want to. However, like Timo said, the default options should be the ones that most players use, and increasingly most players here at least seem to prefer to play with no-selling.
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Old August 18, 2013, 19:30   #7
scud
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
the default options should be the ones that most players use
Do other randartists *really* prefer to use the same randarts, game after game? To me it seems almost perverse to choose Exciting New Artefacts, then choose to re-use those Exciting New Artefacts for subsequent games.
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Old August 18, 2013, 20:06   #8
eMeM
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I guess most players use it right now because it's advertised in every second thread as a panacea for bad playing to make up for inventory management mistakes. With this becoming default all new players will miss old cool flavour of Angband selling game. I liked ZAngbands big wilderness with thousands of shops. Buying and selling is fun for me.

I never liked idea behind no-selling - "I don't want to carry things back to town, just give me more money instead". Why reward a player who doesn't do anything? You don't want to do it so you should cope with less or no money at all. No-shops-at-all ironman option would me much more reasonable.

Many things in early game are not useful but at least have some value you can change for something useful. All those items are new kind of iron spikes. Much more junk.
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Old August 18, 2013, 20:47   #9
Philip
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Insulting people who don't agree with you won't help your position much. "With auto_haggle set to default all new players will miss old cool flavour of Moria/Angband selling game." Haggling was a pain, the novelty wears off after your first shopping trip, just like recalling after every level because you have more egos worth 15000+ each than pack slots after ditching all renewable items was boring. I liked selling half my home to buy speed boots, finding OOD spellbooks, the Black Market in general, but I was too much of a packrat.

The things that aren't useful in the early game happen to be worth carrying with no-selling. Wands of magic missle used to be selling stuff, now they're a primary or secondary ranged attack, confuse monster is used to keep enemies in the middle of the room while you take potshots at them, staff of sleep monsters is used to make a getaway from a group of orcs. These things might have more monetary value than uses, but they're not useless. I leave stuff on the ground, sure, but I pick up the potion of boldness as opposed to a third set of magical armor.
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Old August 18, 2013, 20:52   #10
DaviddesJ
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Originally Posted by eMeM View Post
Why reward a player who doesn't do anything?
Because some instances of "anything" are just tedious. Anyone can go back to town every five minutes and sell whatever they found. It doesn't take skill and it's not fun. It just takes time to get to the same place you would be otherwise.

It's like requiring people to move one step at a time because they should be rewarded for tap-tap-tapping, instead of using the "run" command to shortcut that whole process.

I wouldn't make it the default, myself. I think the defaults should be based in part on the history of the game, not just on how many people prefer to play today (which is in part due to their history.) But it's a good option.
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