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Old August 17, 2012, 01:14   #1
Omarax El Tirano
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Smile First win, my humble opinions and suggestions

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13298


I really enjoyed my journey to the depths of angband. After all the suffering and swearing at the computer screen, i feel ready to express my opinions about the game:

1 I wish the early game were a bit less annoying. I.e: difficult to start with nothing in your backpack ,specially in ironman this made it so slow and tedious. (see below)

2: the game really starts to be interesting past dlvl 70. Lots of Strong monsters, lots of vaults, lots of high level items. High chances of dying !

3 i'd like to see some like of trophies in addition to the score board. Like in doomRL
(kill 10 Azriels to earn some kind of rank etc) when i finished the game i just couldn't think of playing it again... I tried ironman though.

4 i wish the game had more than 127 floors as you can see in my dump i really wanted to continue my journey with my shining new crown...

Now what i liked about it all:

Clearing vaults it's just too fun and the feeling of danger i get when my char is in a vault 8000ft down in the depths of angband is overwhelming. *shivers*

I play only with the old tiles. They are beautiful. (i must be the only one who thinks that)

I play only with randarts... Nice to have unexpected {special} items in those dangerous vaults. *cackle*

all in all it was a nice experience from someone who likes tolkien lore and exploration rpg games. felicitaciones for this wonderfull game.

Anyway i moved to Sil until i recover my interest in vanilla. i get bored easily. So i may try ironman vanilla when final release hits the shelves. (or when my ambition for randarts and vaults returns) *evil gaze*
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Old August 17, 2012, 04:02   #2
fizzix
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Congrats on your win!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omarax El Tirano View Post

I really enjoyed my journey to the depths of angband. After all the suffering and swearing at the computer screen, i feel ready to express my opinions about the game:

1 I wish the early game were a bit less annoying. I.e: difficult to start with nothing in your backpack ,specially in ironman this made it so slow and tedious. (see below)
If you turn off the no-selling option you start with items in your backpack, otherwise you do need to buy the basic stuff like torches. There's still a possibility of changing it and giving every character the very bare necessities, 2 torches, 2 food rations, a weapon, and the first spellbook.

Quote:
2: the game really starts to be interesting past dlvl 70. Lots of Strong monsters, lots of vaults, lots of high level items. High chances of dying !
That's a very interesting. My experience is the opposite and the game is most interesting between levels 5 and 40, after that the chance of dying goes down a lot because of the various no-fail escapes available.

Quote:
3 i'd like to see some like of trophies in addition to the score board. Like in doomRL
(kill 10 Azriels to earn some kind of rank etc) when i finished the game i just couldn't think of playing it again... I tried ironman though.
There are sort of trophies in the uniques killed list. I've been in favor of other achievements being available also. They would have minimal or no gameplay change, but it'd give you the sense of accomplishment. Any specific suggestions?

Quote:
4 i wish the game had more than 127 floors as you can see in my dump i really wanted to continue my journey with my shining new crown...
Other games like DaJ have a post-Morgoth dungeon with deeper powerful monsters. In Angband there are no monsters deeper than Morgoth, and there's no change in dungeon difficulty in level 127 and level 98.

Quote:
Now what i liked about it all:

Clearing vaults it's just too fun and the feeling of danger i get when my char is in a vault 8000ft down in the depths of angband is overwhelming. *shivers*
Everyone loves vaults. It's hard not to love them, there's lots of danger and lots of reward at the same time.

Quote:
I play only with the old tiles. They are beautiful. (i must be the only one who thinks that)
You might like Shockbolt's tiles that will be in 3.4. They are pretty spectacular.

Quote:
I play only with randarts... Nice to have unexpected {special} items in those dangerous vaults. *cackle*

all in all it was a nice experience from someone who likes tolkien lore and exploration rpg games. felicitaciones for this wonderfull game.

Anyway i moved to Sil until i recover my interest in vanilla. i get bored easily. So i may try ironman vanilla when final release hits the shelves. (or when my ambition for randarts and vaults returns) *evil gaze*
The replay value in Angband comes a bit from playing different races and classes, a bit from adding extra personal challenges (like disconnected stairs and ironman) but mostly from the fact that items become available at different points in the game (even moreso with randarts).

Nevertheless if you like one aspect of Angband, chances are that there's a variant that does it better. So certainly give Sil a try. You might also want to try out FAangband or DaJangband or one of the many other variants that are around.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Old August 18, 2012, 11:30   #3
Omarax El Tirano
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Congrats on your win!



Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post

If you turn off the no-selling option you start with items in your backpack, otherwise you do need to buy the basic stuff like torches. There's still a possibility of changing it and giving every character the very bare necessities, 2 torches, 2 food rations, a weapon, and the first spellbook.


And what do i need to do to change it without turning off "no selling"?(i don't Know How To Code) It's annoying to buy everything again after dying specially in ironman.


Something else I Forgot regarding early game that i was implying in the 1st comment is that the very few dlvls you find nothing but low quality items, making the start slow and tedious.... Long Story Short: Regarding unique monsters, i've had long battles with them and after all the effort, all they drop is a bunch of normal arrows. It'd be better if you could earn At Least An Ego Or Low Level Artifact.... items that reward your efforts.








Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post

That's a very interesting. My experience is the opposite and the game is most interesting between levels 5 and 40, after that the chance of dying goes down a lot because of the various no-fail escapes available.


End game is special to me because you can't just waltz into deep dlvls without thinking. Specially with Those fast, deadly uniques . Ahem. Azriel, terrasque. And also those dangerous and tempting "superb feelings"

So many times i've understimated some summoner-type monsters inside vaults , feeling confident of my own power. That stupid woman who summons 9999999999 high level dragons. she made me skip such good vaults.. Let alone anything with plasma in the description. *stun*




Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post

There are sort of trophies in the uniques killed list. I've been in favor of other achievements being available also. They would have minimal or no gameplay change, but it'd give you the sense of accomplishment. Any specific suggestions?


i was thinking of " progressive" achievements:
(you must complete the first lvl before trying the next one)


You start off with:


rank: these ranks go up depending on what medals you got. Rank title varies depending on char race.


hobbit : slob > mushroom farmer > etc


Then we have the medals: awarded by doing things like these:


1 kill x quantity of angels in melee



2 kill x quantity of cherub with archery


Earn bronze medal.






1 kill x quantity of angels with bare hands


2 kill x quantity of cherub with a cursed dagger


Earn silver medal




1 kill x quantity of angels with a wand of wonder


2 kill x quantity of cherubs with throwing lanterns


Earn gold medal


If you got all three reach next rank and unlock unique monsters challenge:




Reqs.: rank xyz, bronze medal.

1 kill uriel with weapon xyz


2 kill gabriel with weapon xyx

3 kill azriel with weapon xyz

Earn bronze medal of the angels.,



Reqs.: rank xyz, silver medal, bronze medal of the angels.

1 kill uriel with lanterns

1 kill gabriel with lanterns

1 kill azriel with lanterns


earn silver medal of the angels... And so on...


With these angel medals, And Bronze Medals Etc. you unlock other challenges and so on... You just need some creativity to pull this off. I wish i could make my own variant with all these ideas. Where To Start? Sigh.







Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post


Other games like DaJ have a post-Morgoth dungeon with deeper powerful monsters. In Angband there are no monsters deeper than Morgoth, and there's no change in dungeon difficulty in level 127 and level 98.





Everyone loves vaults. It's hard not to love them, there's lots of danger and lots of reward at the same time.



I think it 'd be better if vaults were in Every floor, starting from a specific depth. with Less Chance Of Artifacts And More Out Of Depth Enemies. Don't Know Why They Are Random? it will make end game more interesting and dangerous as it should be... You aren't forced to enter vaults anyway.




Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post


You might like Shockbolt's tiles that will be in 3.4. They are pretty spectacular.

They look pretty Cool, for some reason i prefer the simple aspect And Design of the old tiles... Maybe my eyes are still atracted to Nintendo NES-like graphics.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post



The replay value in Angband comes a bit from playing different races and classes, a bit from adding extra personal challenges (like disconnected stairs and ironman) but mostly from the fact that items become available at different points in the game (even moreso with randarts).



Nevertheless if you like one aspect of Angband, chances are that there's a variant that does it better. So certainly give Sil a try. You might also want to try out FAangband or DaJangband or one of the many other variants that are around.


Thanks for the feedback!


I tried other classes and the paladin is the only i liked. The others are a pita to configure. (mage)

I will try to play again with different settings. And might try out other variants. (daj)

Thanks to you.
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Old August 18, 2012, 14:50   #4
LostTemplar
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Achivements in angband are traditionally not linked to number of monsters killed or artifacts found (It make no sense, since any winner character can kill any monsters he wants, and find all artifacts trivially), but to turncount and challenge games, e.g. win an ironman in 200k game turns, post it on the ladder, and you will be remembered.

Also check the competition page, winning a competition is considered an achivement.
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Old August 18, 2012, 18:05   #5
Derakon
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No-selling is intrinsically linked to starting with no gear at the moment, since it's common for players to want to sell their starting gear to buy different stuff. However, starting with gear means starting with less money, and in no-selling you don't get any money for selling stuff, so basically you have to take the gear the game is coded to start you with, whether you like it or not.

We talked about this on IRC a bit and the conclusion was that it should be OK to start the player off with the things they have to buy anyway -- some rations, torches, maybe some scrolls of Phase Door. But pretty much everything else is undesirable for someone (even a cloak -- you can readily find them early on, so why waste the money?

Probably the right way to handle this is to let the player set up a "starting template" of the gear they want to have off the bat. But it'd be a fair amount of work to integrate that into the game. You can, however, achieve something similar by editing p_class.txt. For example, here's the warrior's entry in that file:
Code:
N:0:Warrior
S:3:-2:-2:2:2:-1
C:25:18:18:0:20:0:70:100:55:55:0
X:10:7:10:0:8:0:45:55:45:45:0
I:9:0:7000:40
A:6:30:5
M:0:0:0:0
E:food:Ration of Food:3:7
E:light:Wooden Torch:3:7
E:potion:Berserk Strength:1:1
E:sword:Short Sword:1:1
E:soft armour:Jerkin:1:1
E:scroll:Word of Recall:1:1
F:BRAVERY_30 | PSEUDO_ID_IMPROV
T:Rookie
T:Soldier
...
I removed all of the extra class titles, but you get the idea. The lines that start with "E:" are for starting equipment: the warrior gets 3-7 rations of food, 3-7 torches, 1 potion of Berserk Strength, 1 shortsword, 1 jerkin, and 1 scroll of Word of Recall.

Just replace that with the gear you want to start with and you should be good to go. Note that your initial gear is "purchased" with your starting gold allowance; I don't know what happens if you try to start with more equipment than your starting gold allows for.
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