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Old August 5, 2009, 11:37   #1
TJS
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Monster memory

Had a decent character on the go who just died after a master mystic summoned a load of force hounds who killed me in one turn.

Almost certainly my fault, but I didn't have any information about master mystics in my monster memory so didn't realise they were quite so dangerous.

I like the idea of gradually building up a monster memory in theory, but in practice it means a lot of dying trying to figure out which monsters are safe to kill and which ones need to be avoided at all costs. Especially with the number of high damage breathers that are about.

Is this a desirable state of affairs? I know a lot of Angband is about being incredibly careful, but sometimes it is hard to know what to be careful about.
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Old August 5, 2009, 12:53   #2
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Read the spoilers at :
http://www.juti.nl/hugo/Angband/Spoiler/index.htm
I keep a copy of mon-info on my desktop, and search for the monster name any time that I am not SURE that it is harmless for my character level...
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Old August 5, 2009, 13:11   #3
TJS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCC View Post
Read the spoilers at :
http://www.juti.nl/hugo/Angband/Spoiler/index.htm
I keep a copy of mon-info on my desktop, and search for the monster name any time that I am not SURE that it is harmless for my character level...
Thanks I might just do that. Although this was really my point in that if you need to read the spoilers to be able to play the game properly, then shouldn't the information just be given to you up front?
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Old August 5, 2009, 14:26   #4
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Their flavor text describes them as being able to summon natural creatures. The bigger issue IMO is insta-death causes that don't have any hints, like drolems breathing super damaging poison. I mean, look at the description:
Quote:
A constructed dragon, the drolem has massive strength. Powerful spells weaved during its creation make it a fearsome adversary. Its eyes show little intelligence, but it has been instructed to destroy all it meets.
Even its color doesn't really give that information, as there are a ton of green non-poisonous monsters - priests, hezrou, dracoliches and spirit trolls, forest trolls and wraiths, etc.
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Old August 5, 2009, 16:58   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampl View Post
Their flavor text describes them as being able to summon natural creatures. The bigger issue IMO is insta-death causes that don't have any hints, like drolems breathing super damaging poison. I mean, look at the description:

Even its color doesn't really give that information, as there are a ton of green non-poisonous monsters - priests, hezrou, dracoliches and spirit trolls, forest trolls and wraiths, etc.
Why a construct breathes poison and not something like Acid is beyond me.
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Old August 5, 2009, 17:37   #6
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I think "know complete monster info" should not be a cheating option.

Successful play requires the recognition of threats and the successful execution of a counter strategy. The monster memory helps you recognize threats, but even with complete info there's still a lot of things you need to learn - that a drolem breathes poison is info that could be freely available, that it is incredibly dangerous because of its speed and high damage is another piece of information which even a complete monster memory won't reveal: that's something the player has to learn and synthesize. I know what enemies summon, move quickly, cast spells, or breathe nasty things (with or without the MM) but I still die to them because I over-estimate my ability, fail to give the (known!) threat the proper consideration, or because I wasn't in control of a situation and I was letting too many random factors creep into my game (failing to detect, being careless, etc).

There's two kinds of information: the randomly generated information such as the type, quantity, and placement of the enemies in the current level, and then static information about the game which does not change: the formulae and the monster properties (the spoiler files). The former should remain unknown because it's an important part of the game, that's why we have detection magic and the like. It's always changing and immediately important. I think the latter information should (at least optionally) be available to all players, as forcing them to reference the spoiler files is just inconvenient, especially when the game has an integrated and very nice interface for providing the player this information in-game.
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Old August 5, 2009, 18:13   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marble Dice View Post
I think "know complete monster info" should not be a cheating option.
I consider "know complete monster info" to be a subset of "play with a correct in-game manual".
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Old August 5, 2009, 20:12   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampl View Post
Their flavor text describes them as being able to summon natural creatures. The bigger issue IMO is insta-death causes that don't have any hints, like drolems breathing super damaging poison.
Zaiband partially fixes this: most potentially insta-death attacks (including breath weapons), for the @ in his current condition are not only immediately revealed, they are described as "terrifying".

I don't think this particular fix is complete.
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Old August 7, 2009, 16:54   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampl View Post
Their flavor text describes them as being able to summon natural creatures.
Ah thanks I didn't notice that so it was entirely my fault. Although I didn't realise hounds were natural creatures. I thought natural was things that occured in real life.

On another note, it would be nice if we had 'natural' 'evil' or whatever tags in a different colour in a monsters description. I'm sure it used to be the case at some point.
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Old August 7, 2009, 17:59   #10
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Originally Posted by TJS View Post
Ah thanks I didn't notice that so it was entirely my fault. Although I didn't realise hounds were natural creatures. I thought natural was things that occured in real life.
Such as yeeks, yetis, hippogriffs, werewolves,... ?

Last edited by nekrotyrael; August 7, 2009 at 18:23.
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