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Old October 14, 2011, 10:18   #11
Magnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
You could add "tower shield" as a shield category, to replace the "large shield" we currently have.
Also aegis, bulwark, escutcheon, rampart and ward would all do.

@Nomad: great minds think alike! I'd had the same thought about DSM, following the other thread about which variant had dragon scale helms etc.
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Old October 14, 2011, 10:29   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Two things:
  1. I haven't tried Magnate's affixes yet, but they sound brilliant. It's making me question my ego system for FA.
  2. How many egos does Magnate have now? Surely his previous one was sufficient
Sorry, Derakon beat you to that gag ;-)

@Derakon: from what playtesting I've done so far, the system seems to do exactly what you want. Sometimes you get a Keen Longsword, which has half-decent +hit/dam, and other times you get a Longsword of Parrying (+0,+0)[+7] or a Revealing Longsword (+0,+0) (which gives SI). It is certainly possible to create themes which *don't* use the hit/dam/dice affixes and provide only brands/slays/resists/whatever. Similarly, it's also possible to create themes which *only* use the hit/dam/dice affixes and nothing else, enabling you to create Pain-like items. In fact, if you'd like to suggest some of either, please be my guest - at the moment the only themes we have are the old high-end egos, so new ones would be great.

I've struggled with the idea of "bad" affixes. They do exist, but I haven't yet separated them into their own tier (they're all considered "good" as that's the lowest affix level), and I haven't broken up the really nasty ones like Morgul into themes. This is for two main reasons: most people don't really like "bad" stuff anyway and, more importantly, I'm waiting for us to move to whatever new system of curses we're going to have. This has been discussed for a long time, but nobody's actually coded anything yet. It seems obvious to me that I'll need to do a lot of work on bad/mixed-blessing items once it's done, so I didn't want to do it twice.

In the meantime I think we will find that the system does occasionally chuck a bad affix onto a decent item, so we'll see how that plays.

My priorities now are to sort out the knowledge menus (be warned that fizzix has found a crash bug in the *object* knowledge menu, though bizarrely not the ego knowledge one, which is where the affixes appear) and to make the 'I'nspect command list all the affixes on an item.
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Old October 14, 2011, 13:20   #13
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maybe I'm overthinking this, but does this mean that we could have something like this, eventually:

Prefix Base Suffix
Giant Bastard Sword of Cruelty

Giant being themed with increased damage dice and weapon weight, and of cruelty granting increased dice size, + to hit, + to dam? and would that item potentially also have extra things like a brand or slay if it was found deep enough? That would be nearly the same as artifact power, i'd imagine.

Some item Ideas:

Berserker's: small - to hit, large - to AC, large + to dam, chance of getting an extra blow?, chance of aggravating?, could even have a Bserk activation.

Singing: +agg, +regen, +blows, +to hit, +to dam, -search - weapon weight

Shining: +1 light radius, Res light, slay evil, - stealth


Blinding:+1 light radius, Res light and blind, slay evil, large - stealth, elec brand, activate for confuse monsters (blind monsters?)

Black: -1 light radius, res dark, +stealth, poison brand

Midnight: -1 light radius, res dark and nether, large + stealth, poison and acid brand.

Majesty: two or more high resists, feather fall, small +speed, + light radius

of Knowledge: Grants ESP, see invis, +search, +infra, detection activation

yeah, stuff like this could likely go on and on. I think I may have gone overboard with Blinding and especially Midnight, but that's just cuz I'm
Mighty fond of My Midnight Mace of Majesty, Man.

Yeah, this could go on and on.
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Old October 14, 2011, 13:26   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Sorry, Derakon beat you to that gag ;-)
Meh. I'm getting old.
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Old October 14, 2011, 13:54   #15
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Yes, this is exactly the sort of thing. But before you all get your thinking caps on, here is the list of affixes we have already:

N: is the name (and index number and type)
F: are flags
L: are pvals (pval : min_pval : flags)

### Stuff you'll know already from the old ego_item.txt ###

N:1:suffix:of Resist Acid
F:RES_ACID | IGNORE_ACID

N:2:suffix:of Resist Lightning
F:RES_ELEC | IGNORE_ELEC

N:3:suffix:of Resist Fire
F:RES_FIRE | IGNORE_FIRE

N:4:suffix:of Resist Cold
F:RES_COLD | IGNORE_COLD

N:10:suffix:of Vulnerability
C:0:0:-d50 (means minus 1d50 to AC)
F:AGGRAVATE | LIGHT_CURSE

N:11:prefix:Aggravating
F:AGGRAVATE

N:24:suffix:of Intelligence
L:d2:0:INT

N:25:suffix:of Wisdom
L:d2:0:WIS

N:27:suffix:of Beauty
F:SUST_CHR
L:d3:0:CHR

N:30:suffix:of Seeing
F:RES_BLIND (note that SEE_INVIS is now separate - see Revealing below)

N:31:suffix:of Infravision
L:d5:0:INFRA

N:32:suffix:of Light
F:RES_LIGHT (note that the LIGHT flag is now separate - see of Brightness)

N:33:suffix:of Telepathy
F:TELEPATHY

N:34:suffix:of Regeneration
F:REGEN

N:35:suffix:of Teleportation
F:TELEPORT | LIGHT_CURSE

N:38:suffix:of Dullness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d5:0:INT | WIS | CHR

N:39:suffix:of Sickliness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d5:0:STR | DEX | CON

N:40:suffix:of Protection
C:0:0:d10 (plus 1d10 AC)
F:RES_SHARD

N:41:suffix:of Stealth
L:d3:0:STEALTH

N:44:suffix:of Enveloping
C:-d10:-d10:0 (minus 1d10 to-hit and to-dam)
F:SHOW_MODS | LIGHT_CURSE

N:46:suffix:of Irritation
C:-d15:-d15:0 (as above only worse)
F:AGGRAVATE | SHOW_MODS | LIGHT_CURSE

N:48:suffix:of Free Action
F:FREE_ACT

N:49:suffix:of Slaying
C:d5:d5:0
F:SHOW_MODS

N:50:suffix:of Agility
L:d2:0:DEX

N:54:suffix:of Weakness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d10:0:STR

N:55:suffix:of Clumsiness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d10:0:DEX

N:56:suffix:of Slow Descent
F:FEATHER

N:59:suffix:of Speed
L:d10:0:SPEED

N:62:suffix:of Slowness
F:LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d5:0:SPEED

N:63:suffix:of Annoyance
F:AGGRAVATE | LIGHT_CURSE
L:-d10:0:SPEED | STEALTH

N:69:suffix:of Extra Attacks
L:d2:0:BLOWS

N:72:suffix:of Acid
F:BRAND_ACID | RES_ACID | IGNORE_ACID

N:73:suffix:of Lightning
F:BRAND_ELEC | RES_ELEC | IGNORE_ELEC

N:74:suffix:of Flame
F:BRAND_FIRE | RES_FIRE | IGNORE_FIRE

N:75:suffix:of Frost
F:BRAND_COLD | RES_COLD | IGNORE_COLD

N:76:suffix:of Venom
F:BRAND_POIS

N:80:suffix:of Slay Animal
F:SLAY_ANIMAL

N:81:suffix:of Slay Evil
F:SLAY_EVIL

N:82:suffix:of Slay Undead
F:SLAY_UNDEAD

N:83:suffix:of Slay Demon
F:SLAY_DEMON

N:84:suffix:of Slay Orc
F:SLAY_ORC

N:85:suffix:of Slay Troll
F:SLAY_TROLL

N:86:suffix:of Slay Giant
F:SLAY_GIANT

N:87:suffix:of Slay Dragon
F:SLAY_DRAGON

N:97:suffix:of Brightness
F:LIGHT

N:98:prefix:Everburning
F:NO_FUEL

N:100:suffix:of Digging
L:d3:1:TUNNEL

N:102:suffix:of Morgul (this really ought to be a theme)
F:SEE_INVIS | AGGRAVATE | HEAVY_CURSE | LIGHT_CURSE |
F:HOLD_LIFE | DRAIN_EXP | SLAY_UNDEAD | BRAND_POIS

N:104:suffix:of Accuracy
C:d15:d5:0
M:15:255:0 (this means its minimum to-hit will be +15)

N:105:suffix:of Power
C:d5:d15:0
M:255:15:0 (minimum to-dam will be +15)

N:108:suffix:of Extra Might
C:d5:d10:0
L:1:0:MIGHT

N:109:suffix:of Extra Shots
C:d10:d5:0
L:1:0:SHOTS

N:111:suffix:of the Nazgûl (this could be a theme too)
C:-d10:d10:0
F:LIGHT_CURSE | DRAIN_EXP | SEE_INVIS

N:124:suffix:of Wounding
C:d5:d5:0

N:125:suffix:of Backbiting
C:-d25:-d25:0

N:128:suffix:of Craftsmanship
C:0:0:1d6M4
M:0:0:4 (minimum +ac will be +4)


### New affixes ###
## Armour ##

N:129:suffix:of Haste
L:d5:0:SPEED (this is the DSM speed ego, which is +5 max)

N:131:prefix:Damaged
C:0:0:0:-40:-10 (-40% to base AC, -10% weight)

N:133:prefix:Light
C:0:0:0:0:-10 (-10% weight)

N:134:prefix:Golden
C:0:0:0:10:20 (+10% base AC, +20% weight)
F:LIGHT

N:135:prefix:Mithril
C:0:0:0:20:-25 (+20% base AC, -25% weight)

N:136:prefix:Adamantite
C:0:0:0:40:30 (+40% base AC, +30% weight)

N:137:prefix:Silk
C:0:0:0:-10:-50 (-10% base AC, -50% weight)

N:138:prefix:Spiked
C:d3:d3:0:10:15 (+10% base AC, +15% weight, +hit/dam)

## Weapons ##

N:130:prefix:Massive
C:0:0:0:0:50:1:0 (this has +1 dice and +50% weight)

N:132:prefix:Rusty
C:-2:0:0:-10:0:0:-2 (-2 to-hit, -10% weight, -2 sides)

N:141:prefix:Elven
C:2:0:0:0:-10 (+2 to-hit, -10% weight)

N:142:prefix:Dwarven
C:0:1:0:0:10:0:0 (+1 dam, +10% weight)
L:1:1:TUNNEL

N:143:prefix:Gnomish
C:0:-1:0:0:-20:0:-1 (-1 dam, -20% weight, -1 sides)
L:2:2:TUNNEL

N:145:prefix:Trollish
C:-2:-1:0:0:20:0:2 (-2 to-hit, -1 dam, +20% weight, +2 sides)

N:146:prefix:Hobbitish
C:2:0:0:0:-20:0:-1 (+2 to-hit, -20% weight, -1 sides)

N:148:prefix:Dunadan
C:1:1:0:0:0:0:1 (+1 hit/dam, +1 sides)

N:151:prefix:Kobold
C:0:0:0:0:-20:0:-1 (-20% weight, -1 sides)

N:152:prefix:Orcish
C:0:0:0:0:20:0:0 (+20% weight)
L:1:1:TUNNEL

N:153:prefix:Giant
C:-2:0:0:0:150:1:1 (-2 to-hit, +150% weight i.e. 2.5x, +1 dice +1 sides)

N:154:prefix:Broken
C:-5:-3:0:0:-50:-1:-2 (really not very good)

N:156:prefix:Cheap
C:-2:0:0 (-2 to-hit)

N:157:prefix:Ornamental
C:-1:0:0:0:10:0:-1 (-1 to-hit, +10% weight, -1 sides)

N:158:prefix:Hunter's
C:2d3:0:0 (+to-hit)

N:159:prefix:Forester's
F:BRAND_ICKY (x2 poison brand)

N:160:prefix:Quality
C:1+M5:1+M5:0:0:0:0:0 (+hit/dam)

N:161:prefix:Runed
C:5:2:0:0:0:0:1 (+hit/dam, +1 sides)

N:162:prefix:Majestic
C:2:2:0:0:20:0:2 (+hit/dam ,+20% weight, +2 sides)

N:163:prefix:Bone
C:0:0:0:0:-10 (-10% weight)

N:164:prefix:Stone
C:0:1:0:0:10 (+10% weight, +1 dam)

N:165:prefix:Lead-Filled
C:0:0:0:0:50:2:-1 (this turns a Mace into an old-style Lead-Filled Mace)

N:166:prefix:Dragonbone
C:0:1:0:0:0:0:1 (+1 dam +1 sides)

N:167:prefix:Iron
F:HURT_DEMON (x2 slay demon)

N:168:prefix:Silver
F:HURT_UNDEAD (x2 slay undead)

N:170:prefix:Crystal
C:0:1+d2M3:0 (+dam)

N:171:prefix:Emerald
F:BRAND_FIZZ (x2 acid brand)

N:172:prefix:Topaz
F:BRAND_BUZZ (x2 elec brand)

N:173:prefix:Ruby
F:BRAND_WARM (x2 fire brand)

N:174:prefix:Sapphire
F:BRAND_COOL (x2 cold brand)

N:175:prefix:Diamond
C:0:3+d2M2:0 (+dam)

N:176:prefix:Blackrock
C:0:2+d2M2:0:0:75 (+2 dam, +75% weight)

N:177:prefix:Sharp
C:M5:1+d2M3:0 (+hit/dam)

N:178:prefix:Keen
C:M9:2+d3M5:0 (ditto, but a higher affix level)

N:179:prefix:Vicious
C:M5:1+d2M3:0 (ditto, but for blunt weapons)

N:180:prefix:Brutal
C:M9:2+d3M5:0 (Keen for blunt weapons)

N:196:suffix:of Parrying
C:0:0:d6M6 (+to-ac)

N:197:suffix:of Slicing
C:0:0:0:0:0:3:1 (turns a Scythe into a SoS)

N:198:suffix:of Chaos
C:0:0:0:0:0:2:0
F:RES_CHAOS
(turns an Executioner Sword into a heavier BoC, can also apply to Zweihanders and Katanas - it just gives +2 dice and rchaos)

N:198:suffix:of Disruption
C:0:0:0:0:233:3:4 (turns a normal Mace into an MoD)
F:SLAY_UNDEAD

## General purpose affixes ##

N:181:prefix:Durable
F:IGNORE_ACID | IGNORE_FIRE | IGNORE_ELEC | IGNORE_COLD

N:182:suffix:of Warding
R:1:HRES (the random high resist for Elvenkind, Aman etc.)

N:183:suffix:of Strength
L:d2:1:STR

N:184:suffix:of Hardiness
L:d2:1:CON

N:185:suffix:of Vitality
F:HOLD_LIFE

N:186:prefix:Arcane
F:RES_DISEN

N:187:suffix:of Bodykeeping
F:SUST_STR | SUST_DEX | SUST_CON (for crowns of Might)

N:188:suffix:of Soulkeeping
F:SUST_INT | SUST_WIS | SUST_CHR (for Lordliness)

N:189:prefix:Fearless
F:RES_FEAR

N:190:prefix:Silent
F:RES_SOUND

N:191:suffix:of Fortitude
F:RES_STUN

N:192:suffix:of Certainty
F:RES_CONFU

N:193:suffix:of Darkness
F:RES_DARK

N:194:suffix:of Searching
L:d5:0:SEARCH

N:195:suffix:of Stability (no longer includes Feather Falling)
F:RES_NEXUS

N:199:prefix:Tough
C:0:0:1+d2M3 (+to-ac)

N:200:prefix:Reinforced
C:0:0:2+d3M5 (ditto but better)

N:201:suffix:of Dweomercraft
R:1:MISC | PROT (the random ability on Blessed/Gondolin weapons, Lothlorien bows etc.)

N:202:prefix:Protective
R:1:SUST (the random sustain on Defenders/HAs)

N:206:suffix:of Slow Digestion
F:SLOW_DIGEST

N:203:prefix:Robust
F:SUST_STR

N:204:prefix:Hale
F:SUST_CON

N:205:prefix:Dextrous
F:SUST_DEX

N:23:prefix:Sophisticated
F:SUST_INT

N:26:prefix:Intuitive
F:SUST_WIS

N:29:prefix:Revealing
F:SEE_INVIS

N:66:prefix:Pious
F:BLESSED (note that actual Blessed weapons, with random abilities, are now a Theme requiring Pious + of Wisdom)

N:90:suffix:of Nightbane
F:KILL_UNDEAD

N:91:suffix:of Demonbane
F:KILL_DEMON

N:95:suffix:of Dragonbane
F:KILL_DRAGON

N:101:suffix:of Impact
F:IMPACT (for diggers Of Earthquakes)
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Old October 14, 2011, 21:22   #16
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Great coding/conceptual effort Magnate

But

am I the only one who's a bit nervous about this? (For V)

A.
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Old October 14, 2011, 21:31   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
Great coding/conceptual effort Magnate

But

am I the only one who's a bit nervous about this? (For V)

A.
No - the entire dev team is nervous, which is why it's not been released in a dev version yet. If people want to test it, they have to build it themselves.

EDIT: Just as a reminder, this doesn't remove any of the old objects or ego types - they're all still generatable. It just adds a bunch of new stuff, which needs playtesting and balancing.
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Old October 14, 2011, 21:45   #18
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From my understanding, the major changes with this, as implemented, are:

* You can now get a "partial ego" which has only some of the attributes of existing multipart egos. For example, armor that has two basic elemental resistances, or that can't be damaged but gives no resistances.
* You can get "egos" that don't have bonuses to-hit/dam/AC.
* Some new item combinations are available (e.g. Katana of Chaos, Broken weapons)
* Object distributions may have changed.

So for all that text, this feels like a comparatively low-impact change to item allocation. However, it sets us up to change so much more...
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Old October 14, 2011, 22:14   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
From my understanding, the major changes with this, as implemented, are:

* You can now get a "partial ego" which has only some of the attributes of existing multipart egos. For example, armor that has two basic elemental resistances, or that can't be damaged but gives no resistances.
* You can get "egos" that don't have bonuses to-hit/dam/AC.
* Some new item combinations are available (e.g. Katana of Chaos, Broken weapons)
* Object distributions may have changed.

So for all that text, this feels like a comparatively low-impact change to item allocation. However, it sets us up to change so much more...
It's kind of you to ratchet down the scariness - at the most basic level you are quite right. But the thing that Antoine and others are probably scared about is the last one: I can't possibly have preserved the balance of the previous object and ego item sets, introduced all these new permutations *and* magically balanced them all perfectly. So yes, distributions will probably feel quite different for both egos and artifacts (n.b. artifacts haven't changed, but the method of generating them has) - this is precisely why I'm keen for it to get wider testing in a dev version, because it'll need adjusting before any new release.

Unless I'm wrong, and what people are scared of is that it somehow breaks the "flavour" of V. I've tried very hard not to do that - there are no new abilities, and no changes to the combat algorithm at all, just new permutations of object flags. Nothing has been removed either. The weirdest thing is probably that you can find (+0,+0) weapons with magical abilities, which never happened before. In general +hit/+dam are a little less common, while variations in dice are more common (they were insanely rare before, for non-artifacts).
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Old October 14, 2011, 23:33   #20
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Can affixes be obvious to the @? Like, you see a sword on the ground and can immediately tell whether it's broken. Or burning.
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