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Old August 28, 2012, 18:53   #11
Mikko Lehtinen
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Some people don't like Sil's time limit either.

I haven't yet heard complaints about Fay's or Mist's time limit. Maybe because it doesn't look like one. It's almost identical to Sil's but Fay counts the number of times you have taken the stairs down, whereas Sil counts player turns.

Perhaps Fay's time limit is easier on your psyche because you only have to think about it once every dungeon level. Sil's time limit is with you every step you take.

Just theorizing. Sil has hundreds of times as many players as Fay, and therefore I can't base anything on statistics on player complaints.

I found a thread about CRPGs with time limits:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...-Time-Limits!&
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Old August 28, 2012, 19:24   #12
LostTemplar
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Dungeon level limit is not a time limit. They are completely different, just like character level limit is not a time limit. Also food clock is not a time limit. And SIL does not have a time limit, it have an minimum depth, increasing with time. You can stay at e.g. level 19 for eternity. The closest thing to the time limit I have seen in roguelike is corruption in ADOM, and it is very very nice.

Basically real time limit is good, logical, simple, and nobody will complain, but ill thought of pseudo time limits are often subject for complains (they often introduce some horrible scumming unnatural unlogical behavior to stretch the limit).

If you want a time limit, introduce game time (not turns or something, just time, in days, hours, etc.) variable and limit it (probably softly, e.g. score goes down with time). Anybody will like this.
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Old August 28, 2012, 19:48   #13
Mikko Lehtinen
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I'll explain how time works in Halls of Mist.

The travel between dungeon levels takes a lot of time, let's say a week. Traveling, resting, etc. inside a dungeon level is "tactical time" and doesn't really matter.

Every week the Thin White Duke also strengthens his position in the dungeons. This increases the minimum danger level because Duke's agents are everywhere. If the player wants he can advance further than this to the areas in Duke's direct control, to even more dangerous dungeon levels.

In about a year of game time (48 weeks) the Duke has finished his negotiations with the Dragons of Chaos and the Demons of Aether, and conquers your home realm. You have lost your mission.

Of course the timekeeping is very abstract, and is not completely logical. But this is the basic thinking behind the rules.

Good, (at least somewhat) logical, simple.
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Old August 28, 2012, 20:44   #14
LostTemplar
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Quote:
'll explain how time works in Halls of Mist.

The travel between dungeon levels takes a lot of time, let's say a week. Traveling, resting, etc. inside a dungeon level is "tactical time" and doesn't really matter.

Every week the Thin White Duke also strengthens his position in the dungeons. This increases the minimum danger level because Duke's agents are everywhere. If the player wants he can advance further than this to the areas in Duke's direct control, to even more dangerous dungeon levels.

In about a year of game time (48 weeks) the Duke has finished his negotiations with the Dragons of Chaos and the Demons of Aether, and conquers your home realm. You have lost your mission.

Of course the timekeeping is very abstract, and is not completely logical. But this is the basic thinking behind the rules.

Good, (at least somewhat) logical, simple.
good explanation, allmost as good at this one:

Quote:
My Rod of Detect Life detects plants on walls. This is fine, and indeed a neat feature...but it also reveals the fact that e.g. vine-covered granite walls can exist when completely surrounded by other granite walls. Where exactly is the vine growing?
Quote:
The light from the faerie wings common to most dungeons penetrates the rock on frequencies not visible to your eyes, but which this particular dungeon dwelling vine is able to collect using a scandium-based chlorophyll analog. It is able to grow slowly through microscopic cracks in the rock left by a particular species of ant, which then taps the vines for sap in addition to the nest's regular food. Orcs enjoy a vitrolic brew made from the ants which they collect with long sticks by pulling the vines from the rock and inserting the stick in the remaining cavity. Unfortunately, orcs are quite clumsy at this process, which accounts for the number of broken sticks you find.
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Old August 28, 2012, 21:20   #15
Therem Harth
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Bwahaha! I love it when fantasy takes a leaf out of hard SF's book.
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Old August 28, 2012, 21:46   #16
ekolis
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It takes a week to travel between dungeon LEVELS? Dungeons I'd understand, but individual levels?
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Old August 28, 2012, 22:07   #17
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekolis View Post
It takes a week to travel between dungeon LEVELS? Dungeons I'd understand, but individual levels?
Consider each level to be an outpost under the Duke's control, with large sections of boring wilderness between them.
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Old August 28, 2012, 22:15   #18
Mikko Lehtinen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekolis View Post
It takes a week to travel between dungeon LEVELS? Dungeons I'd understand, but individual levels?
Basically what Derakon said, except that it isn't just boring wilderness between the enemy bases.

The Halls of Mist is a dungeon complex that connects worlds. Some of those worlds have completely different laws of nature. Navigating the beast isn't exactly simple.

The dungeon keeps magically shifting, and there's always that hallucinary blue mist confusing you. And labyrinths, those crazy labyrinths everywhere. Who was the idiot who built this damn thing?

For all these reasons and more, all players have the Navigation skill (based on Memory). If you make your roll, you know where you are and know your way back to town. If you make another Navigation skill check, you have followed an ancient map to this level and get a mapping effect that reveals the nearby dungeon.
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