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Old February 9, 2021, 21:46   #11
Adam
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Just curious, class.txt couldn't be tweaked to start with any equipments?
I mean the sections
# 'equip' is for starting equipment

As i see it is used for defining the starting dagger, armor, consumables.
Does it have any limitations? Like not being able to add artifacts there.

Edit: I also wonder if adding guaranteed drops to uniques is done in the source code or can be tweaked in artifacts.txt? I don't know if alloc can be 100 and an item being generated in town. That could also be a workaround for giving starting artifacts.

Last edited by Adam; February 9, 2021 at 21:53.
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Old February 9, 2021, 22:34   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
Frodo also has pretty nice armor when he sets out: mithril chainmail, possibly magical.
True only for certain values of "sets out."

(Sets out from Rivendell.)

If he'd had that mithril chain shirt at Weathertop...
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Old February 10, 2021, 02:43   #13
DavidMedley
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Originally Posted by whartung View Post
What small changes are you looking for? Maybe you could make them yourself.
Well, you asked!!
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Old February 10, 2021, 15:21   #14
whartung
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Well, you asked!!
Well, sure, and that's a good thing! Some may well be simply config file changes. Others, not so much .

But there's hope that they may be able to get closer to what they want with little hassle.
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Old February 10, 2021, 15:56   #15
wobbly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Just curious, class.txt couldn't be tweaked to start with any equipments?
I mean the sections
# 'equip' is for starting equipment

As i see it is used for defining the starting dagger, armor, consumables.
Does it have any limitations? Like not being able to add artifacts there.

Edit: I also wonder if adding guaranteed drops to uniques is done in the source code or can be tweaked in artifacts.txt? I don't know if alloc can be 100 and an item being generated in town. That could also be a workaround for giving starting artifacts.
You can't start with an artifact or ego weapon, just books or stuff from object.txt

You can however start with an ordinary weapon that just happens to be called sting and has all the same properties as sting by adding it to object.txt 1st.
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Old February 10, 2021, 22:40   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
You can't start with an artifact or ego weapon, just books or stuff from object.txt

You can however start with an ordinary weapon that just happens to be called sting and has all the same properties as sting by adding it to object.txt 1st.
Thanks. I guess that would have the side effect of being able to find multiple sting objects, but that does not really matter.
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Old March 2, 2021, 22:10   #17
will_asher
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I'm considering making a new variant branching from current V, and if I do, I'd be happy to make at least several of the changes your mention. (especially the gorging thing. I agree, the way it is now is stupid.)
Still, it'll probably be at least a month or two before I (potentially) have something like this out.
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Old March 2, 2021, 23:16   #18
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Awesome! Would love to playtest it. I've been thinking some more about wands of slow monster. When @ gets free action he cannot be slowed, yet there are virtually no monsters in Angband that cannot be slowed. I think hasty ents might resist it? I think this game would be more fun if slow monster didn't work very often on deeper monsters.
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Last edited by Grotug; March 4, 2021 at 21:23. Reason: ents, not tents.
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Old March 3, 2021, 03:36   #19
will_asher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
I really would like to, but I'm terrified of coding. I took a rudimentary coding class once and got an F in it.
I'm not that good at coding either, but I've made my own variant before. it's pretty easy with Angband because the code is so well commented. The Angband source basically tells you how it works as you read it (At least this is the tradition with Angband. I assume and hope the more recent maintainer(s) since I left have kept this up).

I thought I'd take another look at the changes you would want and comment for each one if it looks like something I would both want and be able to do for my variant:

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Hmm.. let's see...
* Tone down annoying monsters; namely make vortices less common as well as super-breeders.
I'd want do this anyway.

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[*]Fix the obnoxious gorging mechanic to be more realistic. (Why would @ eat so much as to cause themself to be -10 speed?) If eating will cause gorgedness, a prompt, "are you sure you want to eat the slice of meat? You will be heavily gorged if you do" will appear.
I'd want to do this anyway too.

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[*]Code a game option that scrambles the rarity and depth of items at the game's outset without the player knowing what items are scrambled (so free action may become super rare but rods of speed maybe as common as rings of escaping) (This one's kinda dumb but might be fun for a laugh).
I could probably do something like this but it wouldn't be very high priority.

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[*]Make my own silly starting scenarios: like the one where a hobbit starts out with Sting and The One Ring. I'd also make my own competition where @ gets to start with one of two super launchers (I wasn't able to find the post I made about them awhile ago); and then host it as a competition.
Sure, sounds fun.

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[*]Make spells that increase in power with character level also increase in cost with leveling. So a 3 mana minor heal spell will cost 20 or so mana for a level 50 character. Add back in the 300 heal spell.
Don't know if I'd want this, but I'd consider it.

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[*]Add a poor man's !*Enlightenment* spell that works similarly to how Holy Vision from Warcraft 2 did: allows you to map a small area anywhere in the map (instead of just your location); revealing the objects and evil monsters there as well. Use the cursor to select the portion of the dungeon you want mapped.
Sounds like it might be complicated, but not necessarily. We'll see if my coding is up to it.

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[*]Tweak speed items in such a way so that speed feels special again (speed items are too common, currently).
Haven't noticed this because I haven't been playing the current version for very long. I'll think about it.
(But this is something that would be easy to do yourself in the gamedata files.)

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[*]Make early levels smaller, or at least with a lot more down stairs, or some combination so that early levels are easier to find the down stairs.
I could definitely do something like this.

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[*]Make small, rectangle "special" levels less common.
but why? If you don't like them, you can just take the stairs back up and then down again. (unless you play without connected stairs.)
(This might be easy to tweak in the gamedata files without touching the code. hmmm, if you mean the labyrinth levels, it looks like those are hard coded. Looks like their rarity isn't in the gamedata file.)

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[*]Play around with pastel coloring of special rooms and make secret doors visible (maybe the brick is a slightly different shade)
You mean always visible? Then what's the point of them being secret?
...But this is really easy to do without touching the code. Just open terrain.txt, find where it says:
"
name:secret door
graphics:#:w
priority:10
mimic:granite wall
flags:WALL | ROCK | DOOR_ANY | GRANITE | TORCH
desc:A door that appears like a granite wall to untrained eyes.
"
and change the "w" in this line:
graphics:#:w
...to a letter representing another color ("g" for green, "p" for purple, etc)
(This will only work if you're not using tiles, though. I'd need to do some more looking to figure out how to change it with tiles.)

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[*]Make a bunch of new room types, especially for secret rooms.
I would totally do this anyway.

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[*]Add some new effects for potions of surprise, such as causing the level to suddenly become mirrored (the level you are on suddenly flips horizontally making upstairs now look like down stairs and down stairs look like upstairs. Not sure if monsters and items would also be visibly flipped)--add this effect to the "causes bizarre things to happen" activation.
I would add new effects for !surprise and "bizarre things" anyway, but I don't know if I could do the level-mirroring thing.

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[*]Remove the effect that slow monster wands and staves now have of waking monsters and limit their use only to monsters that can be held/paralyzed, or otherwise leave them as is but make them much less common.
I haven't noticed this, but I wouldn't mind making this change.

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[*]Make rare artifact staves that cannot be destroyed by acid or fire or recharge backfire, with a randomized power level. Like staves of power, for example, but perhaps with more than one activation, (up to 3), with the ability to choose which activation (heal 1000 hp, deal 150 damage to all, or hasten self) for example. When recharged with scrolls Artifact staves would get a 50% increase in number of charges restored (as compared to normal, similarly powered staves). So instead of 3 charges being restored they'd get 4 or 5 charges.
I'm sure I can do something like what you said, but I don't think I'd do multiple different activations. That sounds like it'd be complicated and not worth the trouble IMO. (I did mention I'm not that great at coding either...)
BTW, In my old variant, all staves could be wielded as (usually not very good) weapons in addition to their normal use. I might do that again.

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[*]Maybe play around with an ironman-lite game option with in-dungeon shops. Maybe every 5 levels there is a shop somewhere with the last shop maybe being dungeon level 70. In such a version have money and precious stone veins be much more rare. maybe add back the charisma stat for this game option.
This sounds too complicated to be worth it (especially since I don't play ironman and don't plan to).

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[*]In a similar vein, maybe add oracles: shop-like rooms in the dungeon that either give the player a clue about some of the items in the game (see option 3 in this list), or about fighting Morgoth or some other deep, dangerous monster; kinda like how Commander Keen had cryptic messages throughout:
Code:
You will need a Raygun in the end, but not to shoot the Vorticon...
or... offer a reward for the player to complete a quest. The quest would need to be completed before reaching a certain floor. So if you are on DL23 you could come across a bloke who offers you a reward if you kill Gorlim before reaching DL50. He'll tell you to see his cousin who will be on DL50 and will give you the reward (maybe you'll have to take up an inventory slot with Gorlim's head to prove it). The cousin would have 5 artifact items (totally randomized) but all of a similar power level (the power level would be less random to increase the chance that lugging around Gorlim's head wasn't for naught). You'd then get to choose the artifact you liked the most.
This sounds like something I'd like to do, but it wouldn't be easy and not that high on my priority list. So it would be a while before I get to it (assuming I do decide on making a new variant).
(I remember Commander Keen. that's a blast from the past.)

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Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
[*]Make dragons of annihilation more rare.
dragons of annihilation!? yikes
I've never heard of such things, but if they are what they sound like, I would definitely make them more rare. (or maybe just remove them completely. They must be something that's been added since I stopped playing.)

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Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
[*]Make rare, new item: backpack, that has a random assortment of lesser items in it as well as increasing max number of items per inventory slots above 40, capping out at 60. Or, make said item not super rare and have @ starting pack only have a per item carrying capacity of 20 (instead of 40).
This sounds too complicated to be worth doing. (Although in my old variant, I succeeded in adding a couple slots to the home inventory, so I can do that again at least.)

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Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
[*]Make a tweaked version of the game that removes teleport other wands, rods and spells (but maybe keep as rare object activation). To compensate, tone down monster summons by a lot.
I wouldn't want to do this for my variant, but removing teleport other is really easy to do yourself in the gamedata files. Just go to object.txt and remove (or comment out) the wand and rod of teleport other.
I would probably tone down monster summons a little for my variant though.

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Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
[*]Include option to play the game with 20 dungeon levels instead of 100 (protract the deeper monsters into the last two levels, so something like monsters native to DL62 through DL79 show up on DL19 and those currently native to DL80 through DL100 show up on DL20.
This shouldn't be too hard to do, and I wouldn't mind implementing it as an option.
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Old March 3, 2021, 04:08   #20
Pete Mack
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Grotug--
Definitely agree about the Heal300 spell. The heal2000 spell is stupid overkill for a paladin. If you really need it, you can't risk casting it. Meanwhile, you're out 50MP when you actually heal down 300.
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