Comp 216

[Gwarl]

Competition 216 is a free-for-all for the angband feature/magic branch (check out the thread on the main Vanilla board for downloads). Whoever kills Morgoth in fewest turns wins.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Maybe make a notation on the Competition description that there is no starting save file even though the page has a download starting save file link.

[bron]

Originally Posted by Gwarl

Whoever kills Morgoth in fewest turns wins.

Since Estie has already posted a time that is faster than I have ever achieved in all my years of playing, I gotta say I'm not encouraged by my chances :-)

I note that the experience-needed-to-advance-a-level multiplier seems to only apply to the character's race, and NOT its class (i.e. the multiplier is not affected by the choice of class)? Is that a bug or a feature ?

[Gwarl]

Feature I believe; all the new classes are experimental and need balancing. One of them might be OP.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by bron

I note that the experience-needed-to-advance-a-level multiplier seems to only apply to the character's race, and NOT its class (i.e. the multiplier is not affected by the choice of class)? Is that a bug or a feature ?

Aha, someone has noticed

I have never been a fan of XP penalties; I don't feel that there's really a need to balance races and classes against each other. So when it comes time to redo races, I'm inclined to remove XP penalties from there too.

Opinions, as always, welcome.

PS: Also, what Gwarl said - I strongly suspect blackguards are currently quite OP.

[wobbly]

So more comments on fox form. The possibility of fox form as a stealth form is interesting but completely dependant on it working in melee. Having to drop out of fox form constantly (no pick up, no detect) is managable if you're not actually using your mana, if you're not also changing for combat. Just avoiding fights isn't realistic. A snake in a corridor, bang 2 more mana.. Effectiveness is very dependant on weapon damage. Seems the opposite of how a shapechanger should be. It's one thing for weapon damage to count, part of the equipment merge thing, another for the design to exasperate the problem. An extra blow and minus damage - that makes the weapon matter more.

[Derakon]

Originally Posted by Nick

Aha, someone has noticed

I have never been a fan of XP penalties; I don't feel that there's really a need to balance races and classes against each other. So when it comes time to redo races, I'm inclined to remove XP penalties from there too.

Opinions, as always, welcome.

Strong agreement. Even if races/classes needed to be balanced against each other, XP penalties are not the way to do it.

XP penalties were an attempt to ensure that in a tabletop party-based game, each character would be able to contribute roughly a similar amount even though one hit things with swords and one harnessed cosmic powers. They were a flop even then. They don't belong in a singleplayer game.

[bron]

XP penalties

I admit I haven't really thought this through, but I don't agree. The XP penalties make it harder/slower for the powerful race/class characters to advance (e.g. a High Elf mage vs. a Human warrior). This means that in the exact sort of situation we are in with the competition, you have to consider the trade-offs. A level-46 High Elf Mage with zero-fail Mass Banishment is basically unstoppable, but if getting to that point takes you too many turns, you lose.

I also admit that the lesson being taught by the current situation on the competition ladder is "find a *thanc artifact on level one", rather than anything to do with race, class, or XP penalties :-)

[Nick]

Originally Posted by bron

I admit I haven't really thought this through, but I don't agree. The XP penalties make it harder/slower for the powerful race/class characters to advance (e.g. a High Elf mage vs. a Human warrior). This means that in the exact sort of situation we are in with the competition, you have to consider the trade-offs. A level-46 High Elf Mage with zero-fail Mass Banishment is basically unstoppable, but if getting to that point takes you too many turns, you lose.

I don't think this competition should be taken as a template - in a more normal competition, we would have fixed race and class and the question wouldn't arise.

Originally Posted by bron

I also admit that the lesson being taught by the current situation on the competition ladder is "find a *thanc artifact on level one", rather than anything to do with race, class, or XP penalties :-)

That is a good point. Re-work of artifacts will have to consider that...

[Gwarl]

These turncounts are insane!