digging

[Bogatyr]

Originally Posted by debo

You can handwave combat noise away by assuming that you would always expect there to be a fight or three going on in Angband at any given time, so that it would have to be a pretty big battle to really attract interest

And you can hand wave digging noise away with all the delving, smithing, roaring fires, etc. going on. I'm sort of confused with the interest in making digging worse. If you don't like digging, don't dig!

[AnonymousHero]

Originally Posted by half

If one wants to make digging less good without being frustrating, a way to do so is to make it loud (perhaps just for manual digging). This is something Sil does. I think V might use the max_sight to limit how far sound can travel, which might make this less relevant. If so, I think V should remove (or raise) that limit. Sound is an interesting way to balance things.

You're beginning to sound like Nick with his "FAAngband already does that!".

[Nick]

Originally Posted by half

If one wants to make digging less good without being frustrating, a way to do so is to make it loud (perhaps just for manual digging). This is something Sil does. I think V might use the max_sight to limit how far sound can travel, which might make this less relevant. If so, I think V should remove (or raise) that limit. Sound is an interesting way to balance things.

FAangband already does that

[half]

Originally Posted by AnonymousHero

You're beginning to sound like Nick with his "FAAngband already does that!".

But FAAngband already does that!

[debo]

^^ amazing

[Nick]

All right, here's a plan for digging.

• Aside from rubble, walls cannot be dug without an item with + to digging (main weapon or dedicated digger)
• +n to digging means you can dig a wall of strength n - magma is 1, quartz is 2, granite is 3
• If your digging power matches the wall exactly you have a 50% chance of success, increasing (in a transparent way) as you become more powerful than the wall
• Possibly still a race-based digging skill, or maybe just dwarves get an innate plus, but keep it simple and obvious
• The spell Stone to Mud increases in power with player level
• Wands and rings have a fixed digging level (with wands probably digging quartz but not granite)
• Digger just needs to be carried in the inventory

EDIT: After the restructure, of course

[Bogatyr]

Originally Posted by Nick

All right, here's a plan for digging.

• Aside from rubble, walls cannot be dug without an item with + to digging (main weapon or dedicated digger)
• +n to digging means you can dig a wall of strength n - magma is 1, quartz is 2, granite is 3
• If your digging power matches the wall exactly you have a 50% chance of success, increasing (in a transparent way) as you become more powerful than the wall
• Possibly still a race-based digging skill, or maybe just dwarves get an innate plus, but keep it simple and obvious
• The spell Stone to Mud increases in power with player level
• Wands and rings have a fixed digging level (with wands probably digging quartz but not granite)
• Digger just needs to be carried in the inventory

EDIT: After the restructure, of course

Ew, how does this make the game better? Please keep a birth option, "unbroken digging."

[quarague]

Originally Posted by Nick

All right, here's a plan for digging.

• Aside from rubble, walls cannot be dug without an item with + to digging (main weapon or dedicated digger)
• +n to digging means you can dig a wall of strength n - magma is 1, quartz is 2, granite is 3
• If your digging power matches the wall exactly you have a 50% chance of success, increasing (in a transparent way) as you become more powerful than the wall
• Possibly still a race-based digging skill, or maybe just dwarves get an innate plus, but keep it simple and obvious
• The spell Stone to Mud increases in power with player level
• Wands and rings have a fixed digging level (with wands probably digging quartz but not granite)
• Digger just needs to be carried in the inventory

EDIT: After the restructure, of course

Looks good to me. I think the increase in power can simply be: if your digging strength is bigger than the wall strength, you have 100% chance of success.
Question: I was under the impression, that currently practically all dungeon walls are granite, is that the case? If so I think we need some gradually increasin average wall strength as you progress deeper into the dungeon.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Bogatyr

Ew, how does this make the game better?

Well, the idea was to clarify the rules, to make digging a more interesting and nuanced part of the game, and also to streamline it a bit. My feeling is that currently most players get essentially perfect digging fairly early - it seems to me not a bad idea to spread that skill acquirement out a bit.

That said, that was a bunch of ideas more or less off the top of my head - there may well be good arguments against any or all of them.

Please keep a birth option, "unbroken digging."

Always, although it will be called "Angband 3.5"

[Nick]

Originally Posted by quarague

Question: I was under the impression, that currently practically all dungeon walls are granite, is that the case? If so I think we need some gradually increasin average wall strength as you progress deeper into the dungeon.

Good point - currently it's granite, except for a couple of seams of magma and quartz running through, and the odd bit of permanent wall for vaults. A change like this would require at least a rethink about how this is done.