Ranking of devices

[Selkie]

Am I the only person who hates staffs/scrolls/spells of *destruction*? I feel like it.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Selkie

Am I the only person who hates staffs/scrolls/spells of *destruction*? I feel like it.

I don't like how they mess up the dungeon, but I do like how they stop me dying

[archolewa]

Originally Posted by Selkie

Am I the only person who hates staffs/scrolls/spells of *destruction*? I feel like it.

*Destruction* is my favorite effect. A very powerful effect at a (potentially) steep cost, and the mess it makes of the dungeon gives lots of opportunities to keep nasties out of line of sight.

Really nice when fighting summoners as a Rogue or Ranger and want to stay out of melee (and thus doesnt want to be in an anti-summoning corridor).

[Sky]

i never cary staves, unless it's really early on.

1. Rod(s) of TO - THE most important gear for a warrior.
2. scrolls of teleport
3. rods of detection more for treasures than anything else - ESP covers mob detection
4. Rod of Mapping, altough tunnelling is just fine.
5. scrolls of *Destr*, not staves. Staves can be drained. Scrolls can be burned but *Fire is a must at lower depths.
Tbh i practically never carry *Destr*, i would rather not put myself into that situation. However, as a priest, or occasionally as a mage, i use word of destruction to kite undeads (or BIG uniques, like Ancalong) out of their pits to wipe them out and get to the loot.

not really in the list but both rods of Speed and Restoration are really nice to have.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Originally Posted by Selkie

Am I the only person who hates staffs/scrolls/spells of *destruction*? I feel like it.

I rarely use them on the descent, but do save them for the final battle with Morgoth.

[mrfy]

Originally Posted by Selkie

Am I the only person who hates staffs/scrolls/spells of *destruction*? I feel like it.

I try my hardest not to use them.

[Grotug]

Originally Posted by Selkie

Am I the only person who hates staffs/scrolls/spells of *destruction*? I feel like it.

I sort of wish Angband was designed around TO not existing. I find the dynamic of --lots of super deadly stuff and so the solution is to TO-- gets kind of stale and cheesy after awhile. Sometimes I enjoy my games where I find _Destruction before -TO and have to be clever about luring out baddies and destructing them and then going back to the vault for loot. It's also annoying when you have a promising character that somehow never finds TO and then ultimately is sunk because of it (I play forced descent so scumming for TO isn't something I do--scumming in general is a playstyle I try to avoid).

This game is virtually impossible without TO. I think the game would be more interesting if there weren't any devices that were critical to success or forward progress and trivialized the danger. Sure, some would be more coveted than others, but none that make or break forward progress.

Self Teleport is sometimes critical but usually only for a certain period of the game (say DL20s to late DL40s) and carries risks and is more interesting overall. I'm okay with certain resistances and protections like free action, base resists, see invisible and poison being necessary, but I kind of wish the the game had less [aggro / super dangerous] enemies and no TO or TO that is super rare and not required to win (like as a rare activation on artifacts or something like that). And maybe Mages could exclusively keep it as a later game, powerful spell.

This is why the early game is still the most fun (though the end game I suppose is more interesting than it used to be with all the ridiculous uber-passwallers that now exist. I love playing Half Troll warrior because with decent gear I can tackle most every situation the game throws at me up until DL40 without TO and I have to take calculated risks and I have to be clever (and a little lucky) to survive tricky situations. It's more fun when very few things can one shot you but many things can still kill you quick. This way TO is not absolutely needed, the game is more exciting, and it's still plenty hard.

In general I agree, I don't like destruction because I can never be certain something worthwhile got destroyed--it's an "escape" that carries with it good caveats which makes it more interesting than TO.

So in its current state to compensate for TO's overpoweredness the game design has relied on sillily overpowered monsters that summon like crazy or breathe every horrible element known to @ which just makes @ avoid / TO those monsters completely which isn't all that interesting gameplay.

[Selkie]

@grotug Playing as a ridiculously weak rogue (think clvl 10-20) and power-diving for loot, reliant only on TO, is fun. It's tense and you're always on your toes. It's a thrill cracking a vault knowing you have to TO the Balrog of Moria before he wakes... and then some bastard terrified yeek goes snitching on you.

I agree with you though. It gets spammy later on, especially if you play connected stairs.

[Sphara]

Vanilla Angband today, is quite difficult, even with current TO-system. Teleport Other has fail rates. It's not foolproof.
Changes for *destruction*? Very few characters have enough supply to spam it.

Maybe vanilla isn't as hard as frogband. Sure. It isn't. But in current V, you are just forced NOT to explore some early vaults, without TO. The monsters dmg/turn is too much.

I understand your point, but the way the game is designed, nerfing TO would make it massively more difficult. So what do you suggest? Lower breath damage? Lesser OOD vaults? Save throw against breaths and mana attacks?

[ewert]

I don't use TO much in my plays. Definitely not as any sort of playstyle staple. Nor do I rely on being a janitor to vault floors, I like to kill stuff. Only the big M really makes me rely on TOs, as choosing your ground is very important, and that is if it is a ranged character, if I am melee I will farm for a vault with permanent walls to go toe to toe.

I don't see the major problem with my playstyle. So, maybe, it is more playstyle dependent. Killing uniques/mobs that drop stuff has been giving me majority of my good gear usually, not picking em up from vault floors.

Just my 2 cents, not specifically to anyone.